Flip Text / Attribute Text in Visibility Mode

[econlon]

I have been unsuccessful trying to accomplish 2 things with Dynamic Blocks:

1. Flip Text: If I have a block with text that I want to flip and edit, is there a way to flip the justification for that text so that it will align in the opposite direction once edited?

2. Attribute Text in Visibility Mode: When I include editable text in visibility mode, the text does not appear when I enter out of the default mode.

Any fixes or suggestions? Thanks.

[Mike.Perry]

Hi "econlon"

Please note I have *moved* this thread from the ACAD LT General (http://forums.augi.com/forumdisplay.php?f=104) forum to this one, as I believe it will be better served here.

Thanks, Mike

Forum Manager

[Chris.N]

I have been unsuccessful trying to accomplish 2 things with Dynamic Blocks:

1. Flip Text: If I have a block with text that I want to flip and edit, is there a way to flip the justification for that text so that it will align in the opposite direction once edited?

2. Attribute Text in Visibility Mode: When I include editable text in visibility mode, the text does not appear when I enter out of the default mode.

Any fixes or suggestions? Thanks.1. text/attribute justification does not flip, just as if it was mirrored.
2. in the Block Editor (BE) do you have the attributes set to be visible in all vis states? (is that what you are asking, wanting?) if not, you can r.click it in the BE, and find an option to set it to your needs.

btw, my ATP170 is starting up in january, and you can sign up my clicking the link in my sig line! hope to see you there!

[Rico]

1. text/attribute justification does not flip, just as if it was mirrored.
2. in the Block Editor (BE) do you have the attributes set to be visible in all vis states? (is that what you are asking, wanting?) if not, you can r.click it in the BE, and find an option to set it to your needs.

btw, my ATP170 is starting up in january, and you can sign up my clicking the link in my sig line! hope to see you there!TO elaborate on Chris' answer to Q1 - The text DOES flip and change justification. But once edited the justification does not update properly. The text must be re-flipped, reset and then re-flipped again. Try it with my old datum marker.

I found it too cumbersome to do flipping text so I abandoned that idea ... at least until Autodesk makes it work correctly.

What I ended up doing is 2 vis states with text for each state.

[Chris.N]

TO elaborate on Chris' answer to Q1 - The text DOES flip and change justification. But once edited the justification does not update properly. The text must be re-flipped, reset and then re-flipped again. Try it with my old datum marker.

I found it too cumbersome to do flipping text so I abandoned that idea ... at least until Autodesk makes it work correctly.

What I ended up doing is 2 vis states with text for each state.to elaborate on Rico's elaboration, the justification does NOT flip, but the orientation/ configuration will remain the same to offer the hope and illusion of a flipped justification, untill editing the line will change the number of characters and thro everything off in the 'new' location.

sorry, but it's the same behavior as if it were a standard 'mirror' of text.

[Rico]

to elaborate on Rico's elaboration, the justification does NOT flip, but the orientation/ configuration will remain the same to offer the hope and illusion of a flipped justification, untill editing the line will change the number of characters and thro everything off in the 'new' location.

sorry, but it's the same behavior as if it were a standard 'mirror' of text.
right, that's why when you edit it after flipping, you have to re-flip and reset and then re-flip again ...

[Chris.N]

right, that's why when you edit it after flipping, you have to re-flip and reset and then re-flip again ...cuz the justification didn't change? ;)

[.chad]

to elaborate on Rico's elaboration, the justification does NOT flip, but the orientation/ configuration will remain the same to offer the hope and illusion of a flipped justification, untill editing the line will change the number of characters and thro everything off in the 'new' location.

sorry, but it's the same behavior as if it were a standard 'mirror' of text.to elaborate on chris' elaboration of rico's elaborations - that all seems really cumbersome.

[Rico]

cuz the justification didn't change? ;)
it DOES change, but only until you edit it. and it's not really changing .... it's more just .... fake changing ..... it's hard to explain .... it changes but it DOESN'T ... AAAAARRRRGGGHHH!!

[Rico]

to elaborate on chris' elaboration of rico's elaborations - that all seems really cumbersome.
to elaborate on that ... that's why I no longer use flips for mirroring text objects ...

[econlon]

1. text/attribute justification does not flip, just as if it was mirrored.
2. in the Block Editor (BE) do you have the attributes set to be visible in all vis states? (is that what you are asking, wanting?) if not, you can r.click it in the BE, and find an option to set it to your needs.

btw, my ATP170 is starting up in january, and you can sign up my clicking the link in my sig line! hope to see you there!

Thanks for the response. Question 2 is related to Question 1. Since I cannot flip the justification direction using the flip command, then I need to set up 2 visibility states with separate justifications. The thing is, when I do this, when I first insert the block, it appears that I cannot access the attribute text that is in the non-default visibility state after it is imported. Does this mean that I have to keep all text visible in all visibility states and then leave those text attributes blank that don't jive with the desired visibility state?

[Chris.N]

Thanks for the response. Question 2 is related to Question 1. Since I cannot flip the justification direction using the flip command, then I need to set up 2 visibility states with separate justifications. The thing is, when I do this, when I first insert the block, it appears that I cannot access the attribute text that is in the non-default visibility state after it is imported. Does this mean that I have to keep all text visible in all visibility states and then leave those text attributes blank that don't jive with the desired visibility state?that's one way, but it's been done with invisible attributes that have fields linked to them. it's messy, but possible.

now it's my turn for a brain-lock moment, anyone remember the threads for those?

[Opie]

now it's my turn for a brain-lock moment, anyone remember the threads for those?
Is this, "Linked Attributes, Dynamic Block Vis states," it?

[Chris.N]

Is this, "Linked Attributes, Dynamic Block Vis states," it?maybe, i fell asleep halfway thru, (i think), so after another dose of caffiene, i'll try again... ;)

[Opie]

maybe, i fell asleep halfway thru, (i think), so after another dose of caffiene, i'll try again... ;)
Wake up! You are confusing the rest of us. Was that the thread you were referring to?

[Chris.N]

Wake up! You are confusing the rest of us. Was that the thread you were referring to?i think the one i was referring to was one where rico supplied a bulletted procedure for doing so in red text. i can't find it now.

[Rico]

i think the one i was referring to was one where rico supplied a bulletted procedure for doing so in red text. i can't find it now.This (http://forums.augi.com/showthread.php?p=543812post543812) is what you meant, I think

Where's my cookie?

[Chris.N]

This (http://forums.augi.com/showthread.php?p=543812post543812) is what you meant, I think

Where's my cookie?and yes, THAT is what i was looking for earlier! thanks rico!

[Rico]

and yes, THAT is what i was looking for earlier! thanks rico!
you know! anytime.

[econlon]

and yes, THAT is what i was looking for earlier! thanks rico!

I appreciate everyone's help with this issue though it looks like I've reached the limitations of my platform. I can't create form fields with AutoCAD LT. I will just create two separate dynamic blocks for left and right justification. Thanks for your help.

On a general note, who are you guys? This is the first time I've been on a forum. I'm impressed with the speed and resourcefulness (and humor) of the people involved. I work in a small architectural office which is in the process of converting the CAD platform from Microstation Powerdraft to AutoCAD LT. I am setting up the office drawing protocols and blocks to ease the transition. In general I don't have a lot of time to participate in the forums. I'm glad you guys are out there, but how do you find the time (assuming you're all gainfully employed)?

[Chris.N]

I appreciate everyone's help with this issue though it looks like I've reached the limitations of my platform. I can't create form fields with AutoCAD LT. I will just create two separate dynamic blocks for left and right justification. Thanks for your help.

On a general note, who are you guys? This is the first time I've been on a forum. I'm impressed with the speed and resourcefulness (and humor) of the people involved. I work in a small architectural office which is in the process of converting the CAD platform from Microstation Powerdraft to AutoCAD LT. I am setting up the office drawing protocols and blocks to ease the transition. In general I don't have a lot of time to participate in the forums. I'm glad you guys are out there, but how do you find the time (assuming you're all gainfully employed)?glad we could help, but sorry it didn't work out as you wished.

well, in my own rationalization, i don't smoke, follow sports, work on cars, or talk about hunting. when everyone else is talking about those topics around the office, i dive into here if i have time, (heck, even when i don't, this place should be listed under 'narcotics'!) to try and learn or help others out. i work for a firm that does everything from dirt to buildings, and i'm in the Architectural Dept. (i have a link in my sig)

[Rico]

I appreciate everyone's help with this issue though it looks like I've reached the limitations of my platform. I can't create form fields with AutoCAD LT. I will just create two separate dynamic blocks for left and right justification. Thanks for your help.

On a general note, who are you guys? This is the first time I've been on a forum. I'm impressed with the speed and resourcefulness (and humor) of the people involved. I work in a small architectural office which is in the process of converting the CAD platform from Microstation Powerdraft to AutoCAD LT. I am setting up the office drawing protocols and blocks to ease the transition. In general I don't have a lot of time to participate in the forums. I'm glad you guys are out there, but how do you find the time (assuming you're all gainfully employed)?
That's too bad that it wasn't a fruitful search for you. Maybe you should consider moving up to 2006 or 2007 full blown vanilla cad. ;)

as for me, I'm an arch technologist for a medium sized firm. I'm on here because I find the info to be really useful and it's the cheapest way for me to learn (get training), network and make some positive connections since my firm won't help pay for my training. Plus it's fun here.

[econlon]

That's too bad that it wasn't a fruitful search for you. Maybe you should consider moving up to 2006 or 2007 full blown vanilla cad. ;)

as for me, I'm an arch technologist for a medium sized firm. I'm on here because I find the info to be really useful and it's the cheapest way for me to learn (get training), network and make some positive connections since my firm won't help pay for my training. Plus it's fun here.

Roger that. I'm glad you guys are out there. I'll try to give as much as I take. I have to admit, I'm pretty pleased with some of the dynamic blocks I created....

[Rico]

Roger that. I'm glad you guys are out there. I'll try to give as much as I take. I have to admit, I'm pretty pleased with some of the dynamic blocks I created....
well then come and share them in the Dynamic Bock Sharing thread and let us revel in your creativity! ;)

We're pleased to add another member to our small DB community, too. So welcome aboard.

[Chris.N]

well then come and share them in the Dynamic Bock Sharing thread and let us revel in your creativity! ;). Ditto that!!


We're pleased to add another member to our small DB community, too. So welcome aboard.yeah, with enough time invested and missing hair, you too can one day become a BlockHead! ;)

[greypaw]

2. in the Block Editor (BE) do you have the attributes set to be visible in all vis states? (is that what you are asking, wanting?) if not, you can r.click it in the BE, and find an option to set it to your needs.

Chris.
Could you please look at the attached file?
I'm trying to create a block that has two visibility states - with one attribute:
"left" the circle is drawn on the left, around the attribute.
"right" the circle is on the right, again around the attribute

The ultimate aim is to have a dynamic block of a door, with different swing openings and the door number attribute, in a circle, positioned appropriately for each visibility state.
I hope this is clear!!

Is it possible? I cannot get it to work.

Thanks.

[Rico]

2. in the Block Editor (BE) do you have the attributes set to be visible in all vis states? (is that what you are asking, wanting?) if not, you can r.click it in the BE, and find an option to set it to your needs.

Chris.
Could you please look at the attached file?
I'm trying to create a block that has two visibility states - with one attribute:
"left" the circle is drawn on the left, around the attribute.
"right" the circle is on the right, again around the attribute

The ultimate aim is to have a dynamic block of a door, with different swing openings and the door number attribute, in a circle, positioned appropriately for each visibility state.
I hope this is clear!!

Is it possible? I cannot get it to work.

Thanks.
I tried something similar to that but the idea fell short because of the different scales the drawings are printed at. If you're ALWAYS going to use (for example) a 1/4" scale, then fine. But if you also print out at 1/8 and 1/2 scales etc, then setting your door attribute to one size only makes things more difficult as you now have to worry about scaling text up and down and since it's an attribute embedded in a block, it might not work. Unless you make it a no-plot attribute anduse it strictly to extract its attributes for a door schedule or something.

[greypaw]

I'm not too worried about scale.
I just want the attribute to display in different places dependent upon the visibility state.
I cannot make it happen. Any ideas?

[Rico]

I'm not too worried about scale.
I just want the attribute to display in different places dependent upon the visibility state.
I cannot make it happen. Any ideas?
Yup.

The problem is that your attributes are identical in naming convention.

Attributes cannot be named the same otherwise they will not work. Try adding a 1 or a 2 at the end and everything works out fine. See attached ..... and clean up your drawings by purging your *D *U *X and *Z block references. All they do is clutter things up and make it harder to update your block ...

[greypaw]

Thanks, but "no thanks".
I can do that easily.
You've now created two attributes!
What I want is to be able to MOVE the (one and only) door number attribute dependent upon the visibility state of the door.
Look at this (nice clean!!) attachment...
The attribute door number should always sit in the centre of the circle.
If you change the visibility state to 30 degrees or 45 degrees the attribute does not move, even though in Block Editor it is set correctly. Try exploding the block, once the visibility state is say, 30 degrees, and hey-presto the attribute moves to the correct place!

I hope this is now clear?

I'm beginning to think that this is a "feature" of AutoCAD, and I'm backing a loser here.



Again, thanks for your interest!

[Chris.N]

Thanks, but "no thanks".
I can do that easily.
You've now created two attributes!
What I want is to be able to MOVE the (one and only) door number attribute dependent upon the visibility state of the door.
Look at this (nice clean!!) attachment...
The attribute door number should always sit in the centre of the circle.
If you change the visibility state to 30 degrees or 45 degrees the attribute does not move, even though in Block Editor it is set correctly. Try exploding the block, once the visibility state is say, 30 degrees, and hey-presto the attribute moves to the correct place!

I hope this is now clear?

I'm beginning to think that this is a "feature" of AutoCAD, and I'm backing a loser here.



Again, thanks for your interest!what you are missing to keep your attribute with your circle is having that attributes "lock location" option checked and implementing/ using some sort of 'move'. if it works to just change it in the properties palette, great. but i've had rare luck w/ doing that and usually re-create.

so, the rule of thumb w/ attributes and actions is that attributes have to have the position 'locked' in order to move under the influence of actions. (backwards thinking, i know.... but it's what makes it work!)

pta, Rico is correct in saying that it is always a problem having 2 attributes with the same tag names in DB's. if you can eliminate your duplicates and implement a move of some sort, you will get your block to work as you need.

you might have to replace your visibility (not eliminate!) parameter node w/ a lookup that could control BOTH marker location and the visibility. it could control it all so you don't have to manipulate it...

[Rico]

so, the rule of thumb w/ attributes and actions is that attributes have to have the position 'locked' in order to move under the influence of actions. (backwards thinking, i know.... but it's what makes it work!)

pta, Rico is correct in saying that it is always a problem having 2 attributes with the same tag names in DB's. if you can eliminate your duplicates and implement a move of some sort, you will get your block to work as you need.
Thanks Chris.

[Rico]

Thanks, but "no thanks".
I can do that easily.
You've now created two attributes!
What I want is to be able to MOVE the (one and only) door number attribute dependent upon the visibility state of the door.
Look at this (nice clean!!) attachment...
The attribute door number should always sit in the centre of the circle.
If you change the visibility state to 30 degrees or 45 degrees the attribute does not move, even though in Block Editor it is set correctly. Try exploding the block, once the visibility state is say, 30 degrees, and hey-presto the attribute moves to the correct place!

I hope this is now clear?

I'm beginning to think that this is a "feature" of AutoCAD, and I'm backing a loser here.

Again, thanks for your interest!
Backing a loser? I've found that 75% of the time the issue isn't always DBs so much as user error.

When your project contains 50-200 of those doors in it and you're having to go over every one to make sure they're all positive X Scale values it won't seem like such a great idea after all and you'll curse DBs. You'll see what I mean. Make sure you never mirror DBs. Especially ones with attributes. They work better in positive X and Y Scales. If you do, you'll fall in that 75%.

[greypaw]

Backing a loser? I've found that 75% of the time the issue isn't always DBs so much as user error.

When your project contains 50-200 of those doors in it and you're having to go over every one to make sure they're all positive X Scale values it won't seem like such a great idea after all and you'll curse DBs. You'll see what I mean. Make sure you never mirror DBs. Especially ones with attributes. They work better in positive X and Y Scales. If you do, you'll fall in that 75%.

User error it aint, if it won't do what I want!!!
I do agree that it would be damn silly - :-) - to mirror DB's. Surey that the idea of the "flipping" flip parameter/action!!!!!!

Thanks for the help guys. I'll persevere.

[Chris.N]

User error it aint, if it won't do what I want!!!
I do agree that it would be damn silly - :-) - to mirror DB's. Surey that the idea of the "flipping" flip parameter/action!!!!!!

Thanks for the help guys. I'll persevere.like any new software tool, there is a learning curve to consider. the more you explore and create, the more you can do, and do it better than before. most of the time i find that the issues aren't necessarily based on "user error", just "user experience limitations".

how much exploring of posted DB's in the sharing thread have you done? both Rico and I have links to a nice list in our sig lines.... plenty of inspiration to be found there.

[greypaw]

Thanks Chris. That's "cooled things down"!
Being accused of "user error" goes against the grain, when you have experience of AutoCAD back to v2.6, and have supported in excess of 100 CAD technicians!

However, my original question:
Basically - "Can I have the SAME attributes, at different locations, in different visibility states"? Still hasn't been answered...
A " yes you can", and "this is how", or, a "no you can't", and "this is why", would be GREAT.
I don't particularly want to debate the reasons why I want to do it.


I await with interest...

[Chris.N]

Thanks Chris. That's "cooled things down"!
Being accused of "user error" goes against the grain, when you have experience of AutoCAD back to v2.6, and have supported in excess of 100 CAD technicians!

However, my original question:
Basically - "Can I have the SAME attributes, at different locations, in different visibility states"? Still hasn't been answered...
A " yes you can", and "this is how", or, a "no you can't", and "this is why", would be GREAT.
I don't particularly want to debate the reasons why I want to do it.


I await with interest...not a problem, we're all guilty of being caddies and not trained diplomats... :beer:

well, obviously the most direct answer is 'yes' you can as your block proves, but "no, you shouldn't" because of the issues you are experiencing. the best way IMHO to fix your issue is to keep it visible, but just add a linear parameter w/ a move that can be controlled w/ a lookup for your different visibility states.

how you can accomplish this and keep 95% of your current work is to add the recommended parameter and action to your marker (which will be visible for all states), add a lookup parameter, then add both your visibility parameter and the linear parameter to the lookup table, set the values you need, make sure your "allow reverse lookup" option is selected. accept the modifications, select the visiblity node and set the grip visibility to '0'. call it a day. ;)

also, set your marker parameter grip display to '0', and change your vis and marker parameter settings to "no" for the show properties option.