Some questions for Nostromo N52 users

[madcadder]

I've been looking at this thing for close to a year now and have decided to get one... Maybe.


What I'm curious to is:

1) Does the D-pad control the cross-hair in acad?
2) Can the D-pad be programmed to keystrokes?
3) What key is the orange "fire" button programmed to by default?
4) Can the "fire" button be reprogrammed to keystokes?
5) Any issues with programming the 14 programmable keys?

6) How is yours set up?

[cstanley]

I've been looking at this thing for close to a year now and have decided to get one... Maybe.


What I'm curious to is:

1) Does the D-pad control the cross-hair in acad?
2) Can the D-pad be programmed to keystrokes?
3) What key is the orange "fire" button programmed to by default?
4) Can the "fire" button be reprogrammed to keystokes?
5) Any issues with programming the 14 programmable keys?

6) How is yours set up?

1) No
2) Yes
3) "enter" i think. i'm not at my N52. it can be whatever you want.
4) yes
5) none, whatsoever. i love using it. the cool part is programming multiple keystrokes, macros, pauses between strokes, and multiple commands.
6) i used default settings in cad, just to test it out. mine is set up for revit. i will post pics of my mappings below, but they may not do you much good. ;)

well worth the coin, IMO. I use mine for Revit (i can run it faster than revit can respond) and it runs like a scalded dog in acad...

also, there are really more than 14 programmable keys.
15 keys
1 d-pad (x8 directions)
scroll wheel with button (3 programmable "buttons")
1 red button

all x4 (there are 4 separate "states" that can be programmed individually and switch between on the fly.)

that's a lot of buttons!

all that plus a 5 button mouse makes for a mean cad machine...

[madcadder]

PERFECT!

Those answers were exactly what I needed to hear.

Even the added info was what I wanted to hear.

Thanks ya sir,

[cstanley]

PERFECT!

Those answers were exactly what I needed to hear.

Even the added info was what I wanted to hear.

Thanks ya sir,


glad it helped. note that i also edited my post for a little more info.

[madcadder]

Decisions has been made!

I'm running around the corner to Best Buy at lunch to pick one up. It's $37 and change there.

Cheapest on the net through PriceGrabber at $30 delivered to my zip code.

[madcadder]

I've got my new toy and it's COOL 8)

But I'm trying to figure out the quickest way to program this button into it the UP on the D-Pad.



'-pan (trans (list 0 (* -0.125 (getvar "viewsize"))) 0 1);;



Right now I get to watch it type out every letter and it takes a second. Even with all the delays set to "0.01".

Idea? Thoughts? Workarounds?

Right now my only idea is to turn it into a command (PanUp), maybe set it to an accelerator like CTRL+ALT+SHIFT+8, and launch that.

[Richard McDonald]

Just out of interest what time span are we talking about to train the hand eye co-ordination to get the max. out of this pad?

[madcadder]

Just out of interest what time span are we talking about to train the hand eye co-ordination to get the max. out of this pad?

As a new user I'm not expecting it to take long.
When I was a kid my step-father was a Director of Finance and my mother was a Accountant, so I learned 10-key with my left hand in high school. Not counting all the countless hours with a video game controller in hand. :?
Plus, I printed my attachment as a cheat sheet and it's hanging right above my monitors.


I'm thinking the next set, under RED, will be a group for NEW, OPEN, SAVE, PLOT, etc.

[dzatto]

okay, so you use a mouse with the right hand, the N52 with the left hand, and keep the keyboard in the middle for typing? Seems like a lot of stuff to remember. Is it worth it? I may pick up one, its only $37, right?

[cstanley]

Don't set a delay
if you record your macros and leave the "record delays between events" unchecked, it should zoom right through them pretty quickly. if you set the delay, it will delay it that long.
also, you can hit the "select all delays" button at the bottom and then hit the "delete" button. I don't think it's going to be an instant entry, but it will be pretty quick.


I've got my new toy and it's COOL 8)

But I'm trying to figure out the quickest way to program this button into it the UP on the D-Pad.



'-pan (trans (list 0 (* -0.125 (getvar "viewsize"))) 0 1);;



Right now I get to watch it type out every letter and it takes a second. Even with all the delays set to "0.01".

Idea? Thoughts? Workarounds?

Right now my only idea is to turn it into a command (PanUp), maybe set it to an accelerator like CTRL+ALT+SHIFT+8, and launch that.

[madcadder]

Don't set a delay
if you record your macros and leave the "record delays between events" unchecked, it should zoom right through them pretty quickly. if you set the delay, it will delay it that long.
also, you can hit the "select all delays" button at the bottom and then hit the "delete" button. I don't think it's going to be an instant entry, but it will be pretty quick.

Thanks for the words. Took your advice and did a "select all" and "delete" on the delays.

One bug I have noticed is when set to AUTOMATIC in the Loadout Manager I get double characters.

I set up on my laptop this weekend and tried the "L ENTER" and was getting "LL ENTER". So, I changed it to "_.LINE" and got "__.LINE". No errors when I transfered to back to my PC that I did not set to AUTOMATIC. Changed to AUTOMATIC this morning, had same issue, changed back to resolve. I'll send a tech support off to Belkin this morning.


okay, so you use a mouse with the right hand, the N52 with the left hand, and keep the keyboard in the middle for typing? Seems like a lot of stuff to remember.

And a number pad to the right of the trackball :|


I may pick up one, its only $37, right?

Cheaper on the web if you want to wait. I walked out of Best Buys for under $41.00 with tax. Pricegrabber had a spot for around $30.00 delivered.

[dzatto]

Todd,

How's it going with the N52. Love it or hate it?

[madcadder]

Todd,

How's it going with the N52. Love it or hate it?

Loving it.

Very comfortable!
easy to use.
fast (even when typing out "_.matchprop")
I have the first 26 of 27 button programmed (will change one and add one today)
81 left open to program if I choose.

And on top of it all... My boss asked for the receipt yesterday to get me a check cut.

I think the biggest advantages are the FIRE button programmed to the popup toolbar, the F2 on top right, the ESC on top left, and I love PANning with the D-PAD.

[dzatto]

Loving it.

Very comfortable!
easy to use.
fast (even when typing out "_.matchprop")
I have the first 26 of 27 button programmed (will change one and add one today)
81 left open to program if I choose.

And on top of it all... My boss asked for the receipt yesterday to get me a check cut.

I think the biggest advantages are the FIRE button programmed to the popup toolbar, the F2 on top right, the ESC on top left, and I love PANning with the D-PAD.
AHHHHH, so no more click, drag, unclick.......click,drag, unclick. That right there is reason enough to get it. So you can actually type out things on it? I thought it was just shortcut keys.
As for _matchprop, i just type PP (set it up in my .pgp file).

SInce I mostly use my keyboard and 95% of my commands are set up in my .pgp file, do you think it's worth me taking a look at?

[madcadder]

So you can actually type out things on it? I thought it was just shortcut keys.

You can record the macro any way you want it. "L ENTER", "LINE ENTER", "_.LINE ENTER", custom commands, aliases, diesel macros, time delays if needed, etc.
Anything that you would do with a command line you can do with this device.


Since I mostly use my keyboard and 95% of my commands are set up in my .pgp file, do you think it's worth me taking a look at?

I'm the same way. My first version was R11 so two-letter commands have ruled my world longer than not. The more creative you are the easier you will come up with cool ideas.

My pan for example.
I took the macros from 2002
Example:
'_pan (trans (list 0 (* -0.125 (getvar "viewsize"))) 0 1) ;
and made it a lisp


(DEFUN c:panup (/ |cmdecho|)
(SETQ |cmdecho| (GETVAR "cmdecho"))
(SETVAR "cmdecho" 0)
(COMMAND "'_pan"
(trans (list 0 (* -0.125 (getvar "viewsize"))) 0 1)
""
) ;_ end of command
(SETVAR "cmdecho" |cmdecho|)
(PRINC)
) ;_ end of defun
Then I linked it to the accelorator "CTRL+ALT+SHIFT+8".
and mapped the N52 to "CTRL+SHIFT+ALT+8".

(when pressing the buttons on the keyboard Control+Alt+Shift works differently than Control+Shift+Alt. Try it.)

Now I don't have to watch it type out the whole string; I just get the word PANUP on the command line.

[dzatto]

That sounds cool. I started on Rel. 10.3, but unfortunately, I never learned how to write code, or macros, or lisps. I guess I'm just lazy. I use what other people have done *hint*. ;)

Well, for $40, it sounds like it worth trying. I can always gut it and make it into a planter!!

[madcadder]

That sounds cool. I started on Rel. 10.3, but unfortunately, I never learned how to write code, or macros, or lisps. I guess I'm just lazy. I use what other people have done *hint*. ;)

Well, for $40, it sounds like it worth trying. I can always gut it and make it into a planter!!

Hey, if you pick one up I'll work with ya to make it fly just the way you want.

I understand "lazy" I learned lisp in 99-00 and never advanced to vlisp (will do that soon).

Worst comes to worse keep the receipt and it's a tax write-off.

(FYI if you flip the east/west you live in China)

[dzatto]

Hey, if you pick one up I'll work with ya to make it fly just the way you want.

I understand "lazy" I learned lisp in 99-00 and never advanced to vlisp (will do that soon).

Worst comes to worse keep the receipt and it's a tax write-off.

(FYI if you flip the east/west you live in China)Well, that's good to know!

I appreciate the gesture. I may just have to take you up on that.

[JAC.95598]

that device looks pretty interesting, but how do you guys use your osnaps? Do you have to reach back over to they keyboard and hit E for endpoint?

[dzatto]

that device looks pretty interesting, but how do you guys use your osnaps? Do you have to reach back over to they keyboard and hit E for endpoint?
ahhhhhh never thought of that. I still haven't picked one up yet. Maybe today at lunch..................

[madcadder]

that device looks pretty interesting, but how do you guys use your osnaps? Do you have to reach back over to they keyboard and hit E for endpoint?

I mapped a button on the trackball/mouse to an accelerator for POP0 and still have my button for mbuttonpan panning. (not really needed with the D-Pad panning)

Plus, I keep OSMODE set to 6399.

Plus, the far left buttons on the n52, top to bottom, are set to ESC, TAB, SHIFT. So there is a SHIFT key on the pad.

Attached is a jpg of my Setpoint

[madcadder]

Maybe today at lunch..................

It's after two your time...

huh? huh? huh? well?

[dzatto]

It's after two your time...

huh? huh? huh? well?Nooooo it was only 12:36. I'm an hour behind east coast (I think, yeah that's it)
So what's the osmode really do for ya. Mine is set to 16512. Does this mean anything?

[madcadder]

Nooooo it was only 12:36. I'm an hour behind east coast (I think, yeah that's it)
So what's the osmode really do for ya. Mine is set to 16512. Does this mean anything?

it's the system variable that adds up to how your osnaps are set.

easiest answer is this cut-n-paste:


Sets running object snaps. The setting is stored as a bitcode using the sum of the following values:

0
NONe

1
ENDpoint

2
MIDpoint

4
CENter

8
NODe

16
QUAdrant

32
INTersection

64
INSertion

128
PERpendicular

256
TANgent

512
NEArest

1024
Clears all object snaps

2048
APParent Intersection

4096
EXTension

8192
PARallel


To specify more than one object snap, enter the sum of their values. For example, entering 3 specifies the Endpoint (bitcode 1) and Midpoint (bitcode 2) object snaps. Entering 16383 specifies all object snaps.

When object snaps are switched off using the Osnap button on the status bar, a bitcode of 16384 (0x4000) is returned, in addition to the normal value of OSMODE. With this additional value, developers can distinguish this mode from Object Snap modes that have been turned off from within the Drafting Settings dialog box. Setting this bit toggles running object snaps off. Setting OSMODE to a value with this bit off toggles running object snaps on.

[Mlabell]

You can record the macro any way you want it. "L ENTER", "LINE ENTER", "_.LINE ENTER", custom commands, aliases, diesel macros, time delays if needed, etc.
Anything that you would do with a command line you can do with this device.



I'm the same way. My first version was R11 so two-letter commands have ruled my world longer than not. The more creative you are the easier you will come up with cool ideas.

My pan for example.
I took the macros from 2002
Example:
'_pan (trans (list 0 (* -0.125 (getvar "viewsize"))) 0 1) ;
and made it a lisp


(DEFUN c:panup (/ |cmdecho|)
(SETQ |cmdecho| (GETVAR "cmdecho"))
(SETVAR "cmdecho" 0)
(COMMAND "'_pan"
(trans (list 0 (* -0.125 (getvar "viewsize"))) 0 1)
""
) ;_ end of command
(SETVAR "cmdecho" |cmdecho|)
(PRINC)
) ;_ end of defun
Then I linked it to the accelorator "CTRL+ALT+SHIFT+8".
and mapped the N52 to "CTRL+SHIFT+ALT+8".

(when pressing the buttons on the keyboard Control+Alt+Shift works differently than Control+Shift+Alt. Try it.)

Now I don't have to watch it type out the whole string; I just get the word PANUP on the command line.

Just got my nostromo n52 today, and it is fun! I have a question on your panning. Do you have a list of all the "pan" macros? I thought I would have a hard time filling this thing up, but I am on my way of becoming even lazier than I was before...

[madcadder]

Here is my lisp, just change the name of the file to MarksPans.lsp to protect the guilty and make sure it loads from an acaddoc.lsp

Here is my acad.n52 profile. Everything should work for you except the "fire" button; I have that programmed to another lisp. Generically named AutoCAD.n52.

And last...
Here is a JPG of the CUI for my macros.

You do not have to go that far. You can assign the D-pad to type out PANUP, etc and all will work just the same. I think it is a little faster using the macros, so I do.

(awesome isn't it)

[Mlabell]

(awesome isn't it)

It doesn't take long at all to get used to using it. Still a little drawn to the keyboard, but it has only been a few hours... and it isn't completely programmed either. I owe you a :beer:, or more like my company does. I am still in the process of getting reimbursed (they need to see a positive gain before doing so). The panning is pretty cool, though I wish it were "less jumpy"

[Mlabell]

My current setup is a Logitech Mx500 (attached pic). And here is what I have programmed on the n52 thus far... Some of the commands I am using are lisps which we use. I think that the n52 will save my control button. Which only after 6 months the paint is completely worn off. I think that I will keep the pan on my mouse, since I cannot conceivably outpace my abilities on it with the d-pad.

[madcadder]

I have a question in at Belkin support to see if there is a command line switch to load a profile into the editor, but for now...



(DEFUN c:n52 (/)
(STARTAPP "C:\\Program Files\\Belkin\\Nostromo\\nost_EDT.exe") ; "autocad.n52")
(PRINC)
) ;_ end of DEFUN

[dzatto]

I'm doing the same thing to teach me my new N52 SpeedPad. I have a "printscr" cut down, rescaled, and taped literally above my monitor.
How's the N52 working out for ya? I still haven't picked one up yet, but now I got my IT guy wanting me to get one so he can check it out.

[madcadder]

How's the N52 working out for ya? I still haven't picked one up yet, but now I got my IT guy wanting me to get one so he can check it out.

It's great. I think it is too much having four sets of 27 buttons, but I am finding uses to fill them.

One set is a quick reference. Has line, arc, circle, move, copy, erase, trim, fillet, offset.
One set is from FILE. qnew, sheet set, open, close, save, saveas, page setup, plot, preview.
I though about one for snaps. Bad idea.
I thought about one for zooms. Wasted.
Don't know. If I over engineer it then it will fail to be useful. So, really it works at it's best if underutilized.

Panning on the d-pad is "priceless". the fire button popping a toolbar is awesome. Having an extra ESC (01), TAB (06), and SHIFT (11) on the far left of the N52 is more useful than I can explain. F2 on the top right button(05).

One of our IS guy is a hard core gamer. Flies in a couple of online sqaudrans and is building a gaming chair that is a cockpit. He has all his CH sticks, pedals, and add-ons and he wants one, too.

[dzatto]

It's great. I think it is too much having four sets of 27 buttons, but I am finding uses to fill them.

One set is a quick reference. Has line, arc, circle, move, copy, erase, trim, fillet, offset.
One set is from FILE. qnew, sheet set, open, close, save, saveas, page setup, plot, preview.
I though about one for snaps. Bad idea.
I thought about one for zooms. Wasted.
Don't know. If I over engineer it then it will fail to be useful. So, really it works at it's best if underutilized.

Panning on the d-pad is "priceless". the fire button popping a toolbar is awesome. Having an extra ESC (01), TAB (06), and SHIFT (11) on the far left of the N52 is more useful than I can explain. F2 on the top right button(05).

One of our IS guy is a hard core gamer. Flies in a couple of online sqaudrans and is building a gaming chair that is a cockpit. He has all his CH sticks, pedals, and add-ons and he wants one, too.
They have online squadrons now? Damn I must be getting old. :|
Talk about having too much time on your hands........he must be single!

[madcadder]

They have online squadrons now? Damn I must be getting old. :|
Talk about having too much time on your hands........he must be single!

Not single, but imagine the g/f-wife is in into the same to allow bedroom 3 to be converted like that. You literally climb in, sit down, and have a 24" wide-screen sitting in front of you. Stick where it should be, pedals at your feet, throttle off to the side, fake gauges. It's a monster if he was to move.

As for the squadrans... I had a copy of EF2000 right as DOS disappeared and it had an online group back then. :Dunno:

[CADDmanVA]

I've had my N52 for about five months, and I can't live without it! I attached a PDF with my key map. I'm always looking for input on the mapping, so if you see something that looks out of place, or you think I'm missing something, let me know.

[dzatto]

I've had my N52 for about five months, and I can't live without it! I attached a PDF with my key map. I'm always looking for input on the mapping, so if you see something that looks out of place, or you think I'm missing something, let me know.
That's it!!! I'm getting one now. Be back shortly :)

[CADDmanVA]

That's it!!! I'm getting one now. Be back shortly :)There you go! Throw all caution to the wind and just do it! PM me your email addy and I will send you a copy of my .N52 driver with the mapping in it. If you know LISP well enough, you could really have a party programming the buttons. I don't know it very well, so my mappings are primarily keyboard shortcuts. One recommendation though, always leave the command line up!!! Don't even put it on auto-hide or ACAD won't receive the commands properly.

[madcadder]

One recommendation though, always leave the command line up!!! Don't even put it on auto-hide or ACAD won't receive the commands properly.


I don't have that issue. command line docked = OK, Autohide=OK, off=OK. :?

Can you explain more?

I did have an issue with the first character repeating, but it had nothing to do with the command line.

[dzatto]

All right, I got one!! Yay, welcome to the 21st century. It sure does feel super weird. It's gonna take some getting used to. Once I revise this site plan for the boss, then it's time to play :)

[CADDmanVA]

I don't have that issue. command line docked = OK, Autohide=OK, off=OK. :?

Can you explain more?

I did have an issue with the first character repeating, but it had nothing to do with the command line.Huh? I've always had problems with it not recognizing commands without the command line being docked. If i turn it off (or auto-hide) it doubles the first letter in the string, or if the string begins with ^C^C it fires cancel four times. You mentioned you had the double letter problem before. How did you fix it?

[dzatto]

I'm already having one issue. I can only launch the profile editor through the start menu. I can't do it from the icon tray or the load manager. Anyone else have that problem? Also, when it is launched, my mouse goes super slow.

[dzatto]

Huh? I've always had problems with it not recognizing commands without the command line being docked. If i turn it off (or auto-hide) it doubles the first letter in the string, or if the string begins with ^C^C it fires cancel four times. You mentioned you had the double letter problem before. How did you fix it?
Are you talking about using the dynamic input or something else?

[madcadder]

Huh? I've always had problems with it not recognizing commands without the command line being docked. If i turn it off (or auto-hide) it doubles the first letter in the string, or if the string begins with ^C^C it fires cancel four times. You mentioned you had the double letter problem before. How did you fix it?


Same problem!!! I even had with the command line displayed at the bottom.

In the loadout manager, under OPTIONS, change from automatic to manual to resolve.

Also, I have... "Run on system start" is checked. The "Associated Game" is pointing to AutoCAD.

I mentioned this issue to "Mark", the floor sup, at Belkin when I was working on how to get the Profile Editor to launch with my acad.n52 as the default profile for editing instead of a blank profile. I found it in the registry, but it doesn't stick and reverts back to blank. I should have a reply soon from one of the software engineers. (yea, right)

[madcadder]

I'm already having one issue. I can only launch the profile editor through the start menu. I can't do it from the icon tray or the load manager. Anyone else have that problem? Also, when it is launched, my mouse goes super slow.

Update the drivers from the web site. Probably shipped with the 3.0.4 B; web has 3.0.4 D

I don't have the yellow/orange profile editor icon in my task tray, just the blue loadout manager. :?

Pull up the loadout manager and right click for "Edit This Profile".

[CADDmanVA]

Are you talking about using the dynamic input or something else?Doesn't matter if DYN is on or off in my situation! If the command line is NOT docked in my main window, the N52 commands won't work. If the command begins with a letter, it sends the letter twice, and if the command begins with ^C^C, it sends *cancel* four times. If this still doesn't make sense, I'll make a copy of my command line history.

[dzatto]

Doesn't matter if DYN is on or off in my situation! If the command line is NOT docked in my main window, the N52 commands won't work. If the command begins with a letter, it sends the letter twice, and if the command begins with ^C^C, it sends *cancel* four times. If this still doesn't make sense, I'll make a copy of my command line history.
Maybe I'm just forgetting something, but is there a way to have your command line auto hide in ADT? I keep mine docked and locked on my primary screen, but it would be nice to know that you can float it or auto hide it. How do you do that?

[dzatto]

Update the drivers from the web site. Probably shipped with the 3.0.4 B; web has 3.0.4 D

I don't have the yellow/orange profile editor icon in my task tray, just the blue loadout manager. :?

Pull up the loadout manager and right click for "Edit This Profile".
hehehe actually it is 3.0b. Seems really old. I try downloading it if my IT guy hasn't already blocked it. :|

[dzatto]

Update the drivers from the web site. Probably shipped with the 3.0.4 B; web has 3.0.4 D

I don't have the yellow/orange profile editor icon in my task tray, just the blue loadout manager. :?

Pull up the loadout manager and right click for "Edit This Profile".
Do you have 3.0.4 or 3.0? I can only find 3.0d on the web site. Is that the latest that you know of?

[madcadder]

Do you have 3.0.4 or 3.0? I can only find 3.0d on the web site. Is that the latest that you know of?

They list it as 3.0d. When it is installed it will show up in HELP/ABOUT as 3.0.4
I thought it was 3.0.4 b and d.
(I guess I should have paid attention if the CD version "b" was listed as 3.0.2 or not)

[dzatto]

Do I need to uninstall the previous driver, or will this just update it?

[madcadder]

Do I need to uninstall the previous driver, or will this just update it?

Before updating I disconnected the n52, closed the Loadout Manager, and it took care of the rest.

(as I remember it)

[dzatto]

madcadder,madcadder.....why did you talk me into getting this contraption!!!!!

Just kidding. Okay I stole :) your profile so I could see what the big yahoo with the d button panning was all about. I even pasted your lisp into my acad2007doc.lsp. Nothing is happening!!! What am I doing wrong.

On a similar note, I thinking I need to learn vlsp. Any good and easy way to do that?

[madcadder]

madcadder,madcadder.....why did you talk me into getting this contraption!!!!!

Just kidding. Okay I stole :) your profile so I could see what the big yahoo with the d button panning was all about. I even pasted your lisp into my acad2007doc.lsp. Nothing is happening!!! What am I doing wrong.

On a similar note, I thinking I need to learn vlsp. Any good and easy way to do that?

OOPS... You forgot the accelerators.
That info was from a screenshot. Right now the D-pad is set to "CTRL+SHIFT+ALT+1" for "PANDOWNLEFT" and you would have to change it to type out "PANDOWNLEFT"; takes too long.

BUT... I'm gonna make life easy for ya.

Here is the MNS for the accelerators.

Just transfer them to one of your custom CUIs.

[madcadder]

Any good and easy way to do that?

Me too. Share the wealth when you figure out the perfect book.


I want a vlisp version of "AutoLISP Programming Principles and Techniques" by Rawls/Hagen.

Unfortunately, neither Mr. Rawls nor Mr. Hagen mentioned to the other that this book needs to be written, so they never did. (speculation)

[dzatto]

OOPS... You forgot the accelerators.
That info was from a screenshot. Right now the D-pad is set to "CTRL+SHIFT+ALT+1" for "PANDOWNLEFT" and you would have to change it to type out "PANDOWNLEFT"; takes too long.

BUT... I'm gonna make life easy for ya.

Here is the MNS for the accelerators.

Just transfer them to one of your custom CUIs.Thanks!! Okay I thought I knew what I was doing, but now I'm afraid to mess up my CAD. How do I proceed? I saved your .mns to my desktop, then opened cui, opened the transfer tab, and opened the accelkeys.mns on the right side and hit save. That made it a cui file.the shortcut keys are there, but now what do I do?

[dzatto]

Me too. Share the wealth when you figure out the perfect book.


I want a vlisp version of "AutoLISP Programming Principles and Techniques" by Rawls/Hagen.

Unfortunately, neither Mr. Rawls nor Mr. Hagen mentioned to the other that this book needs to be written, so they never did. (speculation)
So is the best route to just learn autolisp then?

[dzatto]

Okay, I just needed to load it as a partial cui file. Or that's what I did anyway and it seems to have worked. Is it supposed to just pan a little with each press of the d pad, or is it supposed to pan until you let go?

Honestly, I have my middle button set up for pan and I kinda like it better. It's way easier to control for me, but that's probably because I've been using it that way for years.

[dzatto]

Okay, this is starting to get pretty cool. I may actually like this thing. I did find out one trick (or at least it is to me). I use my .pgp file shortcuts for the macro rather than typing it all out.

For instance, instead of a macro that types _matchprop, I set up my .pgp for pp, then set up the macro for pp enter. Much less for the macro to type and much faster.

[CADDmanVA]

I use my .pgp file shortcuts for the macro rather than typing it all out.Ah! Be cautious about this. I thought that would be a great idea too, then someone restored my installation of ACAD while I was on holiday because the shorthand they were trying didn't do what the default was. Oddly enough, no one thought that I may have customized my workstation (insert duh). Then again, I could get smacked for not backing up my files... but that's another thread. :Oops:

[Mlabell]

All right, I got one!! Yay, welcome to the 21st century. It sure does feel super weird. It's gonna take some getting used to. Once I revise this site plan for the boss, then it's time to play :)Welcome to the n52 club! CAD will never be the same.

[Mlabell]

"AutoLISP Programming Principles and Techniques" by Rawls/Hagen.

Unfortunately, neither Mr. Rawls nor Mr. Hagen mentioned to the other that this book needs to be written, so they never did. (speculation)You have that book to, 1994 edition? I love the picture of the DOS text editor on the front cover.

Link to the ongoing VBA class right now ATP181. (http://forums.augi.com/forumdisplay.php?f=737)

[madcadder]

Ah! Be cautious about this. I thought that would be a great idea too, then someone restored my installation of ACAD while I was on holiday because the shorthand they were trying didn't do what the default was. Oddly enough, no one thought that I may have customized my workstation (insert duh). Then again, I could get smacked for not backing up my files... but that's another thread. :Oops:

That's exactly why I did it that way. I even went as far as "_.matchprop". This way out of the entire programming the only thing is not a default acad command is the d-pad and fire button.

Not that it's an after-fact and hearing how dz loaded the accels I think I need to do that. Go back a create a little self contained cui/mnl combo that is needed just for the n52. Keep it all self contained, easy to back-up, and reproducible on another machine.

[madcadder]

You have that book to, 1994 edition? I love the picture of the DOS text editor on the front cover.

Link to the ongoing VBA class right now ATP181. (http://forums.augi.com/forumdisplay.php?f=737)

98 edition through R14. Great book!

[dzatto]

Okay, my first idiot move with the N52!!! I came in this morning and changed a few commands. Easy enough, but I didn't realize that it was on the default profile, so when it asked me to save, I said yes and.................you know where I'm going with this............overwrote all that I had done yesterday. :cry:

What was that you said about backups???:)

[dzatto]

Tod,

I noticed your mouse is a trackman but the ball is used with the fingers. How comfortable is that? The reason I ask is I am using a 3 button trackman, but I have the ball on my thumb side. The N52 has me wanting more buttons on my mouse!!!!

[madcadder]

Okay, my first idiot move with the N52!!! I came in this morning and changed a few commands. Easy enough, but I didn't realize that it was on the default profile, so when it asked me to save, I said yes and.................you know where I'm going with this............overwrote all that I had done yesterday. :cry:

What was that you said about backups???:)

I had to go back and grab mine off this thread once because I did the same thing. :Oops:
As a matter of fact... I think it was day 2, too.

[dzatto]

I had to go back and grab mine off this thread once because I did the same thing. :Oops:
As a matter of fact... I think it was day 2, too.
The Curse of the N52...........ooooooohhhhhhhhhhhhh.

On a better note, I now have one button login and it is so sweet!!!
I went to the blue profile and set the fire button to ctrl+alt+del, login name, tab, password, enter. Now all I do is hit one button and I'm in!!!!

[dzatto]

That's exactly why I did it that way. I even went as far as "_.matchprop". This way out of the entire programming the only thing is not a default acad command is the d-pad and fire button.

Not that it's an after-fact and hearing how dz loaded the accels I think I need to do that. Go back a create a little self contained cui/mnl combo that is needed just for the n52. Keep it all self contained, easy to back-up, and reproducible on another machine.

I'm not up on CUI creation (as you can probably tell), How would you go about doing that? I like my machine to be clean and organized as much as possible.

[dzatto]

My N52 just went haywire. It was stuck in pan and kept scrolling through all the profiles. It locked up cad. I had to unplug it from my pc to get it to stop. Any idea what just happened?

[madcadder]

I went to the blue profile and set the fire button to ctrl+alt+del, login name, tab, password, enter. Now all I do is hit one button and I'm in!!!!

Now that's sweet. Very original.



I'm not up on CUI creation (as you can probably tell), How would you go about doing that? I like my machine to be clean and organized as much as possible.

Done. I named a menugroup "N52", have a CUI and MNL (change TXT to MNL) that work with the AutoCAD.n52 and AutoCAD.ldt files (unzip to Belkin's "Profiles" folder.

The pop-up toolbar takes special coding to function, so just dragging and dropping does NOT do the full trick. It is straight forward thought. Just look and the line, arc, or circle and you will see how the macro runs.

[dzatto]

Thanks for all the help and info. Where should I send the check? :)
After I do some _ork (I forgot that's what I'm supposed to be doing when I'm in my office), I'll mess around with setting up the cui. I'm sure I'll mess something up and ask for your help again!

[madcadder]

Thanks for all the help and info. Where should I send the check? :)
After I do some _ork (I forgot that's what I'm supposed to be doing when I'm in my office), I'll mess around with setting up the cui. I'm sure I'll mess something up and ask for your help again!

YOU CAN'T FIX IT IF YOU DON'T BREAK IT FIRST!

[dzatto]

YOU CAN'T FIX IT IF YOU DON'T BREAK IT FIRST!
AMEN to that brother!! I can break some stuff, it's what I'm known for.:mrgreen:

[madcadder]

I updated the MNL to include the "N52" command posted earlier to launch the Profile Editor.

[dzatto]

I updated the MNL to include the "N52" command posted earlier to launch the Profile Editor.
Is that what you have your fire button set to?
BTW, bad things still happen sometimes when I pan using the d pad. I'm not sure if its the way I set it up, but it will keep scrolling forever, and cycle the N52 at the same time. When I hit escape on the N52, it opens the task manager, or pops up the task bar in windows. The only way to stop it is to unplug it. Any ideas?

I still haven't got my IT guy to reload the latest driver, maybe that's the problem.

[dzatto]

I don't know guys. Maybe its just me, but I'm having an hard time getting used to it. I use my keyboard so much, that it's just too confusing to load up the N52. I do like my one button log in, though!!

[madcadder]

Is that what you have your fire button set to?
BTW, bad things still happen sometimes when I pan using the d pad. I'm not sure if its the way I set it up, but it will keep scrolling forever, and cycle the N52 at the same time. When I hit escape on the N52, it opens the task manager, or pops up the task bar in windows. The only way to stop it is to unplug it. Any ideas?

I still haven't got my IT guy to reload the latest driver, maybe that's the problem.

My fire button is a popup toolbar.



I don't know guys. Maybe its just me, but I'm having an hard time getting used to it. I use my keyboard so much, that it's just too confusing to load up the N52. I do like my one button log in, though!!

Kick shins if you need to, but I'd get the drivers updated pretty quick.

[CADDmanVA]

Kick shins if you need to, but I'd get the drivers updated pretty quick.Absolutely! I have my own set of minor troubles with N52, but not like you're having!!! It has to be the drivers causing those problems.

[dzatto]

Okay, still trying to make myself get used to it!!! One thing I don't get, if you have the filet command on the N52, you still have to type "r" then input the radius right? Is there a faster way that I'm not thinking of. I was thinking of making several filet commands set to the ones I use most. 0,10',15,20,25,, but thats 5 buttons.

I still love the auto login, though :)

[madcadder]

Okay, still trying to make myself get used to it!!! One thing I don't get, if you have the filet command on the N52, you still have to type "r" then input the radius right? Is there a faster way that I'm not thinking of. I was thinking of making several filet commands set to the ones I use most. 0,10',15,20,25,, but thats 5 buttons.

I still love the auto login, though :)

I have a 10 button offset toolbar to do the trick.

try:


_.fillet
enter
r
enter

or you could add


pause (for long enough to type in a distance - maybe 3 secs)
enter

[dzatto]

I have a 10 button offset toolbar to do the trick.

try:

or you could add
ahhhh good ideas. I guess I could use a toolbar, but I can type f,space,r,space, number in about a half a second!!!
I just hate using toolbars. Keystrokes, my man, keystrokes.:)

the pause may work well. I'll give it a try.

[CADDmanVA]

ahhhh good ideas. I guess I could use a toolbar, but I can type f,space,r,space, number in about a half a second!!!
I just hate using toolbars. Keystrokes, my man, keystrokes.:)

the pause may work well. I'll give it a try.Hmmm... has anyone else seen Ellen Finkelstein's latest on the new ACAD 08 dashboard? May be the solution to toolbar-blues. here's the link:
http://www.ellenfinkelstein.com/autoCAD.html

[madcadder]

ahhhh good ideas. I guess I could use a toolbar, but I can type f,space,r,space, number in about a half a second!!!
I just hate using toolbars. Keystrokes, my man, keystrokes.:)

the pause may work well. I'll give it a try.

My "madness behind the method" is "how many clicks/keystrokes?".

I'm not going to type, type, enter, type, enter, click, click, enter, type, enter, when I can type in two letters or click one button. I'm a keyboard person, so I truly understand.

My toolbar is set for:

n/x, 1/32, 1/16, 1/8, 1/4, 3/8, 1/2, 5/8, 3/4, 7/8

and the best part is it is a local variable used for the offset. If I offset on one side of a perimeter by 36" I can offset a 1/2" using the toolbar and then when I hit offset on the other side it is still set at 36".

[dzatto]

My "madness behind the method" is "how many clicks/keystrokes?".

I'm not going to type, type, enter, type, enter, click, click, enter, type, enter, when I can type in two letters or click one button. I'm a keyboard person, so I truly understand.

My toolbar is set for:

n/x, 1/32, 1/16, 1/8, 1/4, 3/8, 1/2, 5/8, 3/4, 7/8

and the best part is it is a local variable used for the offset. If I offset on one side of a perimeter by 36" I can offset a 1/2" using the toolbar and then when I hit offset on the other side it is still set at 36".
ahhhhh thats a nice feature.

[dzatto]

Hmmm... has anyone else seen Ellen Finkelstein's latest on the new ACAD 08 dashboard? May be the solution to toolbar-blues. here's the link:
http://www.ellenfinkelstein.com/autoCAD.html
Yeah, but you still have to move the mouse away from the drawing area, click on what you want, move it back. I thinks it's way quicker to just type in one or two letters, smack the space bar and go.

[Mlabell]

Hmmm... has anyone else seen Ellen Finkelstein's latest on the new ACAD 08 dashboard? May be the solution to toolbar-blues. here's the link:
http://www.ellenfinkelstein.com/autoCAD.htmlThe new dashboard is pretty wicked, and fully customizable I may add! I had fun with it in the Beta testing... Still my new favorite addition is the data link with excel. Soon I hopefully will be able to update my drawing with excel.

[CADDmanVA]

Still my new favorite addition is the data link with excel.Beta tester? jealous!

That's going to be cool too! We always use complex tables for various spec lists. I personally think the multi-line attributes and multi-leaders will take the cake though. I'm excited to try it out when the download is available. I think it may be time to upgrade from 06 finally.

[mfowler]

This thread is effin' brilliant. I have an n52 in my desk drawer at home, and have never thought about bringing it to work to use with cad.

[CADDmanVA]

This thread is effin' brilliant. I have an n52 in my desk drawer at home, and have never thought about bringing it to work to use with cad.Welcome to the gang!

[Mlabell]

This thread is effin' brilliant. I have an n52 in my desk drawer at home, and have never thought about bringing it to work to use with cad.Yeah you will have a whole lot of fun with at work. Actually work will now never be the same.

[madcadder]

Per this thread (http://forums.augi.com/showthread.php?t=58175)
Yeah but 104 programmable buttons. My left hand feels lonely when I CAD at home without it... The nostromo cant be beat, for what it does, also it is a perfect fit for most peoples hands. The panning on it isnt very good though.

Have you programmed the panning per the lisp I supplied? If so, what about the method needs to be altered to better serve what your looking for? (I might like it better that way too)

With the combination of panning distance redefinable in lisp and time repeats definable on the n52 there should be a tinker that fits.

I'm on PTO till Monday, so I don't have mine with me, but we and throw around some ideas if you like.

[Mlabell]

Yeah I tried the lisp, and maybe what I needed to do was change the panning increment... But now I have reprogrammed buttons associated with the d-pad, and am pretty used to using those. We work on projects varying from 3 miles in length to 120 feet in length, so it somewhat hard to get a perfect fit for a pan function. The functions you wrote were good, but just hard for me adapt to.

[madcadder]

Ah. The panning I supplied runs on increments of screen percentage. I have another version somewhere that pans 100 units at a time in a direction. Edit to your needs.

Right now it is a stand alone, 9-button, toolbar w/ icons. The middle button is defined for a particular lisp; I supplied the generic pan icon that matches the rest.

[jmctamney]

Could someone go into a little greater detail on how to set this up for Revit?

[robert.1.hall72202]

Anyone use the speedpad in other programs?

If so, which ones?

Can the profile be changed while swapping to
another program?

[CADDmanVA]

Anyone use the speedpad in other programs?

If so, which ones?

Can the profile be changed while swapping to
another program?
I've played around with Photoshop a little. Seems to do nicely so far.

I think you can change the profile on the fly with automatic mode, but I haven't tested it. I tend to run AutoCAD or Photoshop when I'm using Photoshop enough to require the pad, so I keep to manual mode.

[robert.1.hall72202]

I've played around with Photoshop a little. Seems to do nicely so far.

I think you can change the profile on the fly with automatic mode, but I haven't tested it. I tend to run AutoCAD or Photoshop when I'm using Photoshop enough to require the pad, so I keep to manual mode.

All I am using are the common keys. Shift, backspace, escape, etc.
They work from the speedpad for any application.

[dkosburn]

Just got an n52 from Amazon today for work, currently trying to get things setup.

One question, I'm a LISP novice and I'm looking at the DPAD panning LSP and the associated files. When I load the lisp I get "; error: extra right paren on input". Just looking through the code I'm not seeing any unmatched parentheses, is there something I'm missing?

- Dustin

[madcadder]

Just got an n52 from Amazon today for work, currently trying to get things setup.

One question, I'm a LISP novice and I'm looking at the DPAD panning LSP and the associated files. When I load the lisp I get "; error: extra right paren on input". Just looking through the code I'm not seeing any unmatched parentheses, is there something I'm missing?

- Dustin

Are you referring to the N52.cui I uploaded? and the MNL from that for the panning?

[dkosburn]

Are you referring to the N52.cui I uploaded? and the MNL from that for the panning?

Yes, I was looking into those but I haven't had much time to pursue it. Right now I'm using the dpad for some file functions, eventually I'd like to get it to pan though.

(Sorry my reply took so long, was on vacation last week)

[madcadder]

....(Sorry my reply took so long, was on vacation last week)

I've been scarce lately too... My card says "CAD" something-another, but right now I'm a Purchasing Manager that works with drawings. So temporarily :? my cad time's dropping.

I'm on the laptop so I don't have the N52 files, just the autocad stuff. I'll edit this from the office later to include the AutoCAD.n52 file.

[EDIT: added the two N52 files.]

[dkosburn]

Tod,

Thanks for posting those! Your setup gave me some great ideas at improving my own. My original setup uses accelerator keys in AutoCAD, but yours is definitely easier to modify. Once I get mine fleshed out a bit I'll post it for anyone else that cares to see.

[madcadder]

You're welcome.

To me... It's complex in it's setup, but easy to maintain and repeat once you get the 1, 2, 3, and 4s down. Accelerators, toolbar, lisp files, and the N52 all working together.

To be honest most of this was developed, copied, or modified to be used with the keyboard or mouse and just migrated over to the N52.


I look forward to seeing your added madness to the method.

[dejan.cvetanovic]

Hey guys, I am wondering about something. The other day I had that job to do on my work, like reving-up set of 50+ dwgs. I taught to assign some predefined values for each key like "AS BUILT" or "ISSUED FOR CONSTRUCTION" which is like I would like to assign Text string to a key. Is this possible?

Thanx.
Also did anyone had a chance to try that Saitek Pro Gamer?

[Mlabell]

I personally would make your request into a dynamic block, with a lookup of values. Check the one out that I attached.

[robert.1.hall72202]

I personally would make your request into a dynamic block, with a lookup of values. Check the one out that I attached.

I have several dynamic blocks that contain visibility states for text.
I hardly type in any text. Insert block, click the arrow, and then select
the desired variation.

EX. Draft-Production, Perlimary Draft, Draft-Eng Change (select version)

[dejan.cvetanovic]

I understand your point and it is a great tip, but what hapens is that at some point of working on the project (I am in Electrical Drafting) I have to send part of the drawings for example 20 dwgs "Issued for Control Panel Bid" and than at the stage of "Issued for Field Construction" I have my set of 100 dwgs with different revisions and as-well in different spots in the title block. It is not a big difference if I just type Rev.Description (paste it from clipbord) or select it from DB Look-up value.

Well I saw this grat thread about n52, and sure I was excited that I can utilize it for my everyday work and just Idea poped up about having all rev stages assigned to certen keys.

Also I use Sheet-sets and subsets, maybe someone have Idea how to update titleblocks of the project dwgs easier that I do now. Iti is pain that I have to open each dwg just for revisions.

Thanx again for response

[jason.cyr13]

I was doing research on macros for a presentation and I came upon this thread. Since I am an impulsive shopper, I went right out and picked one up. Holy cow!! This thing rocks! The only downside is that I've confirmed my geek status to my peers.8) That, and I've been setting up templates so I really haven't had time to play. Yet.

Thanks everyone for all the comments, it made my decision easier. And the burning Mastercard in my pocket helped too...

P.S. On all of Tod's posts, he has a rotating banner. How do you create those? Thanks.

[mfowler]

Belkin is releasing a version......

Nostromo n52te (http://www.engadget.com/2007/10/04/belkin-intros-n52te-speedpad-gaming-keyboard/)

[jmctamney]

To anyone thinking of getting one of these. THEY ROCK!!! It's taken me a while to get up to speed with it but then again, I am switching between Revit and ACAD with it so memorizing they keys has been a challenge.. I found the most imediate benefit with Revit though. Being a "typer" in acad it was hard to get used to the toolbars of Revit.

[brian.165575]

Ok. Purchased the N52te this morning. how do Iprogram macro for osnap of endpoint.
I can get endp but am having problem inputting the underscore?

[jaberwok]

If ENDpoint works, you don't really need the underscore or the period/point.

[ekubaskie]

I've been doing some heavy digitizing from aerial imagery for nearly a year now. A couple weeks back my wrist said "ENOUGH!" and I missed 3 days of work. I was so swollen and sore that I was thinking that my gout attacks had progressed to my wrist.

By now I'm wishing that was true. At least colchicine would help. The project deadline is coming nigh...

For a week I tried to use both a standard mouse leftie and my trusty tablet's 16-button puck on the right. What a pain (lit and not) and I figure I needed to get more function transferred to the left, and a mouse is too limitedI So I picked up one of the n52te units last week, and I'm getting there.

We brought in a set of ergo-cops this week, and they said I'd been making the right changes, and did a lot of ooh-ing and ah-ing over the n52te unit. These are the experts?

OK, so I've managed to offload a lot of the effort to the other hand. I haven't even programmed many of the keys yet - and it seems that the process has changed a bit since the earlier posts in the thread.

Has anybody out there used the latest driver/software versions that might have some suggestions? At this point I can't seem to figure out how to apply ctrl, alt, and shift to a button's setting so as to use the joystick part for panning - though I found out today that it works OOTB with ESRI's ArcMap.

[madcadder]

I'm still on the old one, but this is my MNL file:
In total I have a:
*.ldt
*.n52
*.mnl
*.cui
for my setup...

Use the MNL and assign the keys on the te to the command names.

;;;
;;; N52.mnl
;;; by Tod Winn
;;; ==========================================================================
;;;
;;; This file is loaded automatically for the N52 CUI.
;;;
;;; ==========================================================================

(PROMPT "\nLoading N52.mnl...")

(DEFUN c:n52 (/)
(STARTAPP
"C:\\Program Files\\Belkin\\Nostromo\\nost_EDT.exe"
) ; "autocad.n52")
(PRINC)
) ;_ end of DEFUN

(DEFUN c:panupleft (/ |cmdecho|)
(SETQ |cmdecho| (GETVAR "cmdecho"))
(SETVAR "cmdecho" 0)
(COMMAND "'_pan"
(TRANS (LIST (* 0.125 (GETVAR "viewsize"))
(* -0.6 (GETVAR "viewsize"))
) ;_ end of list
0
1
) ;_ end of trans
""
) ;_ end of command
(SETVAR "cmdecho" |cmdecho|)
(PRINC)
) ;_ end of defun

(DEFUN c:panup (/ |cmdecho|)
(SETQ |cmdecho| (GETVAR "cmdecho"))
(SETVAR "cmdecho" 0)
(COMMAND "'_pan"
(TRANS (LIST 0 (* -0.125 (GETVAR "viewsize"))) 0 1)
""
) ;_ end of command
(SETVAR "cmdecho" |cmdecho|)
(PRINC)
) ;_ end of defun

(DEFUN c:panupright (/ |cmdecho|)
(SETQ |cmdecho| (GETVAR "cmdecho"))
(SETVAR "cmdecho" 0)
(COMMAND "'_pan"
(TRANS (LIST (* -0.125 (GETVAR "viewsize"))
(* -0.6 (GETVAR "viewsize"))
) ;_ end of list
0
1
) ;_ end of trans
""
) ;_ end of command
(SETVAR "cmdecho" |cmdecho|)
(PRINC)
) ;_ end of defun

(DEFUN c:panleft (/ |cmdecho|)
(SETQ |cmdecho| (GETVAR "cmdecho"))
(SETVAR "cmdecho" 0)
(COMMAND "'_pan"
(TRANS (LIST (* 0.125 (GETVAR "viewsize")) 0) 0 1)
""
) ;_ end of command
(SETVAR "cmdecho" |cmdecho|)
(PRINC)
) ;_ end of defun

(DEFUN c:panright (/ |cmdecho|)
(SETQ |cmdecho| (GETVAR "cmdecho"))
(SETVAR "cmdecho" 0)
(COMMAND "'_pan"
(TRANS (LIST (* -0.125 (GETVAR "viewsize")) 0) 0 1)
""
) ;_ end of command
(SETVAR "cmdecho" |cmdecho|)
(PRINC)
) ;_ end of defun

(DEFUN c:pandownleft (/ |cmdecho|)
(SETQ |cmdecho| (GETVAR "cmdecho"))
(SETVAR "cmdecho" 0)
(COMMAND "'_pan"
(TRANS (LIST (* 0.125 (GETVAR "viewsize"))
(* 0.6 (GETVAR "viewsize"))
) ;_ end of list
0
1
) ;_ end of trans
""
) ;_ end of command
(SETVAR "cmdecho" |cmdecho|)
(PRINC)
) ;_ end of defun

(DEFUN c:pandown (/ |cmdecho|)
(SETQ |cmdecho| (GETVAR "cmdecho"))
(SETVAR "cmdecho" 0)
(COMMAND "'_pan"
(TRANS (LIST 0 (* 0.125 (GETVAR "viewsize"))) 0 1)
""
) ;_ end of command
(SETVAR "cmdecho" |cmdecho|)
(PRINC)
) ;_ end of defun

(DEFUN c:pandownright (/ |cmdecho|)
(SETQ |cmdecho| (GETVAR "cmdecho"))
(SETVAR "cmdecho" 0)
(COMMAND "'_pan"
(TRANS (LIST (* -0.125 (GETVAR "viewsize"))
(* 0.6 (GETVAR "viewsize"))
) ;_ end of list
0
1
) ;_ end of trans
""
) ;_ end of command
(SETVAR "cmdecho" |cmdecho|)
(PRINC)
) ;_ end of defun

(PROMPT "\nN52.mnl Loaded Correctly!\n")