Large projects...

[ahabashy]

Hey there...

Just about to start a project which would be one of the largest Revit project produced in Australia. Serious! Im talking the size of a large city block, aprox 30,000sqm.
9 floors of basement, 10 floors of mixed use retail and residential and 2 x 18 story towers!

There could be between 5-10 central files for this project.
10+ REVIT users on the job.

I have done lots of research but still not totally comfortable with setting this beast up.
Any suggestions or good tips would be much appreciated.

Thanks

Anthony
Sydney CAD Manager
HASSELL

[robert.manna]

Please don't feel I'm being rude, and please don't take this the wrong way. Are you going to be working on this project as well, or are you just the CAD manager (per your sig)? If you are just the CAD manager I would highly encourage you to start with getting someone who will be on the project team involved with setting up the project. We have found (just like several other major firms) that Revit projects need to have a "lead modeler" or some other user who is the go to person for that team, and keeps the reigns on the model.

Besides that, do you have specific questions? It sounds like the different parts would be managable Revit project sizes. Will the two towers be exactly alike? Are you handleing the interiors for the towers, or just core and shell? What about the rest of the project? What are the other disiplines doing?

HTH,
-R

[sbrown]

The beauty of revit on most jobs is its a single file with little to manage. As soon as you move to large, linked projects, management becomes an issue again. People can load whatever tags they want, things can get screwy. But basically you'll just want to set it up smartly. My rule of thumb is to break up the model into the packages that it will be issued in. Next by who will work on what. Note if you have existing dwg data, I've found it best to create export views set to NEW only, then you can still use the legacy data and not recreate more than you need to.

Also make sure every file is workset enabled with worksets for each link so you can chose what to open. otherwise you will open every linked model everytime you opne a file. This can take too long and start you off with a full page file which is bad news for revit.

Your hardware and network config must be top notch. But its certainly doable. You'll need a library of generic annotation tags to match all your typical symbols for various views that will arrise.

[msteven]

We have a large project, but it is corner project compared to yours. Here are some tips from my experience. Break out each model as much as possible, import each building into the site, phases, even if they are going to build 2 or more buildings at once. Try to keep your files to a manageable size separate the building models, make use of worksets and groups. The main item I think is to manage your team and files. If your view is only part of a floor plan, section or only a portion of project turn off other worksets. Leaving the worksets on only takes up regeneration time. Groups are only as good as the user managing it. Example, if you have 2 separate groups and they are also part of 2 separate worksets, do not let them attach to each other / let them clean up, because if you change one or the other you will get a lot of messages on your screen asking if you would like to un-join them. Remove hosted items within groups also. Groups are very helpful, but it is not quite perfect. I will post more items as I remember them.
Our current project is a 4 to 7 level mix use building and we are about 1/2 thru the project and the file is already 110+ megs. I think our computers are very fast too and every thing still takes time to regenerate or work out what every it is doing. The main item I try to keep in mind is to have fun.

[robert.manna]

100 mb is a managable size on P4's running @ 3 ghz or so. We've found that 200 mb is really the upper limit on our current workstations (and that is pushing it). We have an 8 story building right (sans skin/envelope) that is running at about 115 mb. If the envelope were in Revit I think we would be looking at 175-200 mb file. We have a large condo tower that is somewhere between 125-200 mb (its been shelved so I'm out of touch). However that was mostly core and shell, the unit types are are in their own files as they don't need to show up in all the floor plans.

You'll want to research the 3 gig switch for PC's, its documented on Autodesk's website, video drivers can be the tricky part.

-R

[ahabashy]

thanks for your help all...

i do apologise for the lack of information given.

firstly yes i will be working on the project 1 or 2 days a week and i will also be managing it from a cad management point of view. All templates have been set up for the company i.e (title sheets, text styles, annotation, families) etc..there has been a few revit project in our office but this is the first of its kind. We have 3 very experienced users that will help me model the project from the start and 1 full time revit expert monitoring the project status, creating families and things for the project. The main problem i have with this project is linking them together in a manageable way. Whats the best way for file separation? do i make my site plan the overall drawing that i link into? should we start with mass model and extract parts of the building to a new file? best practise for file size and backup is a big issue with me as well. We had Bruce Gow in our office for a few days helping us divide the project which was fantastic and we are happy with the project separation. we are thinking of basement and cores in one file, ground, lvl 1 and lvl 2 in another (retail) the rest of the levels will be divided into separate files and each tower will be in separate files as well. both towers are alike but not exactly the same. there will be minor interiors for the residential, retail will be done by someone else. our computers are all dual core Pentium 4 6300 @ 1.86GHz x2 all with 2gig ram, graphics card is a NVIDIA Quadro FX 1500. i have had no problems so far. the max file size that ive tested is between 50 and 60 mb.

[Wes Macaulay]

File size is not always the issue. If you have really complex geometry, Revit's file sizes get really large without slowing you down that much. The two Revit killers are a) number of objects and b) number of relationships (locked alignments, wall joins, roof joins).

Limit a) by componentizing and using families as much as possible -- use fewer objects. Limit b) by sparing use of the align tool, disabling wall joins, etc.

[Justin Marchiel]

are you talking about building more information into your families? I dont really follow what you are saying? How else do you create a revit model without families?

Justin

[Wes Macaulay]

This was an idea that Zeds brought forward: use families whenever you can, and conglomerate whenever possible. So you could build a wood frame detail component containing the top plates and bottom plates all as one object, so you'd have one family instead of three. Bad example, but you get the general idea. For detailing, use detail lines as little as possible. Use families (not groups!!) for things like flashing, thresholds, etc.

If you do this, performance improves. I went through our largest project and file size dropped 10% and save time improved by 25%. I deleted groups and replaced them with families (they were using groups for lab carts, and some other care home equipment), and after that gave 'em a wee lashing for improper use of groups!

[Justin Marchiel]

ok i see what you are saying. Do you find a large improvement when you nest detail componants into the families aswell (ie detail componant of a window frame, in the window family, visible at fine detail)? I have started making my families like this from the start and just want to make sure that this is the best time saver. to me it seems that it would be, but hey you never know!

Thanks

Justin

[Simon.Whitbread]

...Limit a) by componentizing and using families as much as possible -- use fewer objects...
Just to expand on that a bit further:

Detail groups containing only detail lines (lots of them) - DON'T DO IT!

[DaveP]

We ran into trouble when we set up a large project by creating each of the pieces (linked files) separately. Mel created Bldg1, Mike created Bdlg2, and Cameron created Bdlg3. Then we created a Site project and linked the other 3 in. BIG MISTAKE.

We had a lot of problems with Phases until we realized that one of the projects used Phase I and Phase II, while the other used Phase 1 and Phase 2. Similar problems with worksets, titleblocks, legends, and Families. Even though they all started from the same Template, there's always something you need to Import or create.

On the next big project, we started with the Site, made sure we had everything like worksets and phases and Levels set up. Then, before actually modeling anything, we did a SaveAs to the pieces. Kept everything a LOT more consistent.

[Simon.Whitbread]

...lot of problems with Phases until we realized that one of the projects used Phase I and Phase II, while the other used Phase 1 and Phase 2. Similar problems with worksets, titleblocks, legends, and Families. Even though they all started from the same Template, there's always something you need to Import or create.

On the next big project, we started with the Site, made sure we had everything like worksets and phases and Levels set up. Then, before actually modeling anything, we did a SaveAs to the pieces. Kept everything a LOT more consistent.
As long as your companies standard Revit documentation is consistent, all you need is your staff to buy into it. Project documentation is also a must for when new team members join.

[Steve_Stafford]

...We ran into trouble when we set up a large project by creating each of the pieces (linked files) separately. Mel created Bldg1, Mike created Bdlg2, and Cameron created Bdlg3. Then we created a Site project and linked the other 3 in. BIG MISTAKE...I don't see why this is a big mistake.

[DaveP]

The big mistake was not linking in 3 files. The big mistake was that we had three different people creating the files. Even though we do have a pretty solid template, there are always things that need to be added after you create the new Project. Our Template has a Lower Level, First Floor, Second Floor and Roof. This project had an Entry Level and a Mezzanine. One project file had a "Main Entry Level" and two had "Entry Level". Phases were "Phase 2" in one project and "Phase II" in the others. There are several different Worksets in each Project. None of these can be (or at least are) in our Template.

Had we set up all of the items that were unique to the project (as opposed to the Project file) in one file and then copied it, we would have saved a lot of pain.

There are always going to be some things you'll need to uniquely specify for every project. when the project is spread across several RVT files, its better to do it once & copy instead of doing the same thing multiple times in each RVT. Even if one person is doing all the work,

[dbaldacchino]

I kinda see your point, but in my opinion, your case sounds like lack of leadership. Even if there were three individuals working on a job, either one individual should have taken charge to ensure that all parties use the same standards or at least everyone should have met once a week and discuss things. Or simply email each other.

To me, having phases named differently means that the template (your starting point) had already failed and communication wasn't there. Before you even start drawing, when splitting a job in pieces like that, you need to sit down altogether and discuss the big picture items. Talking to each other is the single most important ingredient when collaborating in that manner.

[Simon.Whitbread]

I agree with David,

Especially with the amount and quality of the data, this is no longer playing at CAD. You will need good documentation and leadership.
We are also using a 'Model Manager', usually a senior technician who documents project specifics and makes sure everyone on the team is working the same way.
On a hospital with 20+ linked Revit files and Lord knows (actually the Model Manager does!) how many linked dwgs from external consultants using Archicad and microstation, the project documentation is a MUST

[twiceroadsfool]

I agree that tha model management is a must as well, we have "Revit-leaders" on teams, that handle the implementation aspects of the project. My team needs to make X, and isnt sure how to do it, which method will we use? This is a biggie.

Weve got a project that is 3 models linked together too, and what ive found is a biggie, is making sure that the model manager assures that similar components are the SAME in all three models. All of ours are really part of the same mall, but different packages/ buildings. But, for instance, the cornice profile family only exists once. Its hard to watch the entire team to make sure someone doesnt make an update on the profile once, and load it ONLY in to the model they're working in.

Like mentioned above, its more a leadership issue than a revit capability issue.