CAD on Vista Performs Much Worse than on XP

[Buffeldrek]

just came across with some juicy articles of Vista vs CAD


http://aecnews.com/news/2007/01/31/2240.aspx

http://www.tomshardware.com/2007/01/29/xp-vs-vista/page7.html

[Mike.Perry]

Hi

Until software applications / programs have been written (updated) for use on Vista (Are Vista compliant), I personally feel such articles / statements are a little unfair / unjust... just my humble opinion.

Have a good one, Mike

[hand471037]

Hi

Until software applications / programs have been written (updated) for use on Vista (Are Vista compliant), I personally feel such articles / statements are a little unfair / unjust... just my humble opinion.

I agree. I used to think that Vista was going to be really bad for CAD, but the standard 3D benchmarks show it to only be about 5% slower currently than XP on the same hardware. Once Microsoft and the CAD vendors catch up things should speed up and be about the same.

Doesn't make any sense to me that things would be slower, you'd think Vista to be better than XP, but oh well. I personally am not going to use Vista until I have to, which I'm hoping by then many of these issues to be worked out.

[Buffeldrek]

true - the articles didn't say much about how the benchmark was performed - my first guess was that this might have to do something with the graphic settings - that the benchmark was executed with the microsoft Direct3D.
Don't know the present status - but caught once that OpenGL was not supported on vista. Only after installing a plug-in, one could access OpenGL.

On the other hand Tom's Hardware isn't the first/best reviewer that launches these "rumors". Solidworks claimed to be the first CAD system ready for Vista (or was it 64bit?) neuh - I remember Vista too... and it was in this test.

Caution is the advise at the moment

[Mike.Perry]

AutoCAD and the New Windows Vista (http://autodesk.blogs.com/between_the_lines/2007/02/autocad_and_the.html) via Shaan Hurley

[michael.12445]

Shaan Hurley's article is, IMHO, quite telling - Vista is really great for playing Texas Hold 'Em. So THAT'S what they do behind the walls at Autodesk...

Now I'm not a systems programmer, but here are the facts as I know them:

1. When running just about any CAD application, the more system memory you have available for the application, the better it runs.

2. Every single review of Vista I've read says that Microsoft has seriously lowballed the hardware requirements - it runs very slowly with the recommended minimum of 512Mb of system memory. To make your Vista experience bearable, you need something more like 1Gb.

3. Several posts on AUGI state that many Autodesk products will not run at all on Vista.

4. Vista is Microsoft's first new desktop OS since Windows XP, and it took five years to develop. Microsoft delayed the release of Vista several times, and there was a significant beta testing period. Several application vendors (IBM, Symantec, Microsoft, etc.) developed Vista-compatible versions of their products prior to Vista's release, so that they would be immediately available to users of the new OS; Autodesk did not.

Conclusions:

If you rely on an Autodesk application, you need to avoid Vista for now. Since Autodesk applications run on Windows and Windows only, it seems inconceivable that Autodesk can continue to evade the issue of Vista compatibility, but given the resource-intensive nature of both CAD and Vista, it seems like an uphill battle. It's so much easier to keep playing poker.

Michael Evans
Togawa Smith Martin Residential, Inc.

[Ruben]

The general feeling in the industry has been that migrating to Windows Vista is not really a pressing need for most companies. Most of the comments I have seen from other IT Managers talk about postponing Vista deployments a year or more, most saying definetely that they will not deploy until SP1 is out. See this article for example:

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2007/02/01/vista_waiting_game/print.html

Therefore, I can see why Autodesk did not feel too much pressure to issue a Vista compatible product in time for Vista's launch. Their products are not aimed at the general consumer, but at more corporate type clients who are not in any hurry to upgrade to Vista. Besides, lets face it, what are their clients going to do? Go to their competitor? ;)

[jaberwok]

A2007 launched in March 2006. Vista launched in January (just) 2007. You can't expect adesk to re-engineer A2007 for compatibility. Let's see what A2008 (March 2007) brings.

[michael.12445]

The general feeling in the industry has been that migrating to Windows Vista is not really a pressing need for most companies. Most of the comments I have seen from other IT Managers talk about postponing Vista deployments a year or more, most saying definetely that they will not deploy until SP1 is out.

Our IT manager feels the same way. No need to migrate now, but...

There is a certain turnover as machines break down and new employees are hired. For example, we have someone new starting mid-February. Normally, our IT manager would furnish him with a new computer, and he has a purchase agreement with Dell. So if the new computer comes with Vista, and the new guy needs to use AutoCAD...?

There's already a joke posted in the Coffee Without CAD forum about a customer so baffled by all the dfferent versions of Vista that he ends up choosing OS X....

Michael Evans
Togawa Smith Martin Residential

[Ruben]

Our IT manager... has a purchase agreement with Dell.

What does that mean? Did he agree not to purchase from other vendors? Maybe this is the time to shop around a little. As I said in another thread, Xi is my current preference for desktop workstations. They have been very good machines, but when I have needed support Xi has been top notch.

[Mike.Perry]

Techsoft 3D Comments on OpenGL in Vista (http://worldcadaccess.typepad.com/blog/2007/02/techsoft_3d_com.html) via WorldCAD Access

[LABELED1US]

I've heard that the vist will support DWF AND DXF file formating there will nolonger be a need for the Express Viewer.
for that I think that Vista will win my vote to Migrate.
But I'm one to say sence I can't load my student version of ADT 2006 to run with the Vista. I have Duel boot with the ADT loaded on the XP Disk and Vista loaded on a Slave boot Disk.
Any suggestions???????

[jtgb]

The general feeling in the industry has been that migrating to Windows Vista is not really a pressing need for most companies. Most of the comments I have seen from other IT Managers talk about postponing Vista deployments a year or more, most saying definetely that they will not deploy until SP1 is out. See this article for example:

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2007/02/01/vista_waiting_game/print.html

Therefore, I can see why Autodesk did not feel too much pressure to issue a Vista compatible product in time for Vista's launch. Their products are not aimed at the general consumer, but at more corporate type clients who are not in any hurry to upgrade to Vista. Besides, lets face it, what are their clients going to do? Go to their competitor? ;)



Autodesk has competition?

[Mike.Perry]

Hi

Refer to the links in this post [ RE: Will AutoCAD 2007 be supported on Windows Vista ].

Have a good one, Mike

[Mike.Perry]

Usage of CAD in Vista (http://jtbworld.blogspot.com/2007/03/usage-of-cad-in-vista.html) via Jimmy Bergmark

[cadtag]

I've asked some of the early adopters what the compelling reasons were for migrating to Vista, and to date no one has come up with any reason that's even moderately compelling. Security has been suggested, but after reviewing the available information, security in vista seems to be more of a frustration than a reality. To be fair, security on a consumer or business OS can't really be judged until it's been in the wild for a while, so I'll keep my ears open in that area. Current reports on the built-in anti-virus are not encouraging however.

For now though, my XP boxes are tucked behind a hardware firewall at home, and at the office the It group is taking more active measures.

NT4 had substantial advantages over Nt3.5, so that upgrade was an easy choice. Win2K included ActiveDirectory, and an easy upgrade path, so as a corporate package it was a smart upgrade. (I'm willing to bet that there are still huge numbers of W2K machines chugging away and doing their job both in and out of corporate environments,) XP on the other had, didn't have all that many new features, but the remotedesktop was well worth the upgrade hassle.

For Vista though, since I don't have an imperative urge to load my OS up with oppressive DRM, and don't particularly care for the EULA provisions that authorize microsoft to remove any software from my machine that they don't like, I think I'll be running XP for quite a while.

[cadtag]

Doesn't make any sense to me that things would be slower, you'd think Vista to be better than XP, but oh well. I personally am not going to use Vista until I have to, which I'm hoping by then many of these issues to be worked out.

It seems likely that the majority of the slowdowns are related to the internal encryption and DRM 'features' built into Vista. Not elements that are of any use to a worker-bee. But, not elements that will ever be 'worked out' because they are integral to the Gatesian vision of controlling all information flow everywhere and the strategic steps that MS is taking in regards to entertainment vs production.

In many ways, a reasonable W2K machine is a more effective cad box - just think of it as XP without some of the fluff and a simpler UI. Now if the original features in Longhorn would have made the cut, it would be a different story. I'd cheerfully take a 5% hit in speed for the benefits of WinFS.

[pcraig0888]

So don't buy vista to run CAD

[Brian Myers]

'depends if you are on subscription... the next group of Autodesk programs should run on Vista just fine if you have a fast enough 'puter to run Vista itself.

[jaberwok]

So don't buy vista to run CAD?

If you're buying a new pc it will almost certainly have Vista pre-installed.

[robert.1.hall72202]

Dell still has options to purchase a computer with XP.
I am sure there are companies that do not wish to put a Vista machine
within their stockpile of XP seats.

Anyrate, cad is running currently so why upgrade to Vista?
What would the cad user get out of the deal?

[cadtag]

If you're buying a new pc it will almost certainly have Vista pre-installed.

Perhaps, just as likely it will be a Unice flavor with a windows secondary boot or virtual machine with XP on it.

Personally I'm watching the React OS project with great interest - a stable windows equivalent Os without the world domination goal. Heck, competition between OSes (and between application platforms too!) is a good thing fof the end user.

[jaberwok]

Perhaps, just as likely it will be a Unice flavor with a windows secondary boot or virtual machine with XP on it.

Personally I'm watching the React OS project with great interest - a stable windows equivalent Os without the world domination goal. Heck, competition between OSes (and between application platforms too!) is a good thing fof the end user.

No argument from me but how many hardware-shifters feel like that?

[dzatto]

All I know is I've been running ACA 2008 on Vista for a week, and tomorrow I'm blowing out the machine and putting XP on it.

The performance was horrible. Even simple tasks like scrolling through open drawing windows took forever. It would stop at every drawing and idle for about 10 seconds. I haven't seen 2008 run on XP yet, but I'm hoping it runs much smoother. I'll know tomorrow!

[dzatto]

I don't know. I had ACA 2008 on Vista, it ran like carp. I blew out the machine, installed XP and 2008, and it's about the same. Very sluggish. Of course, I'm drawing in 3D. I bet it's better in 2D.

Anyone else seeing sluggish performance in ACA2008 on XP? I even rebuilt the deployment and it still runs the same.

[Mike.Perry]

[ SNIP ]

Anyone else seeing sluggish performance in ACA2008 on XP? I even rebuilt the deployment and it still runs the same.Hi

Nope! can't say I have...

Have a good one, Mike

[jguest82179]

For Vista though, since I don't have an imperative urge to load my OS up with oppressive DRM, and don't particularly care for the EULA provisions that authorize microsoft to remove any software from my machine that they don't like.....
I was aware of the DRM issues, but would you care to expand some on these inclusions in the EULA? Some links, perhaps?

If that's truly the case then I think "disturbing" is about the mildest way I can put it! :shock:

[jguest82179]

cadtag, I'm truly interested - what part of the Vista EULA are you referring to?

I'm a system builder/reseller too, so I don't want to be selling my customers a raw deal.

[cadtag]

The risky element is Windows Defender - where MS can define arbitrarily what "unwanted software" is rated "high" or "Severe" will automatically be removed after scanning.

http://blog.wired.com/monkeybites/2007/02/windows_vista_e.html

[jguest82179]

OK, so it's easy enough to turn off and replace with a 'real' antvirus/anti-spyware package.

That's no big deal.