groups & stuff

[clog boy]

Just wondering: how wise is it to work with groups? We're trying to establish a real estate model this way, but are running into problems time and time again.

All help appreciated. Thanks in advance.

[Dimitri Harvalias]

Try doing a search and you'll find there are a number of threads on the forum dealing with this subject. Groups are getting much better (and should continue getting better judging by RA2008 info)
Many have had success but there are certain guidelines one should follow.
What specific issues are you running into?

[clog boy]

For instance, some objects (like a wall or roof) can't be added to a group. (host element cannot be added to group) We tried everything but it still doesn't make any sense.
When we try to re-place or mirror a group (a building's interior) into another outer shell (which is also a group), we get errors nine out of ten times. The result is we either have to delete elements from the group, or ungroup the whole thing. We can't seem to create a group the way we need and keep it up to date.

It's causing much frustration, and doesn't add to Revit's potential to meet deadlines.
Ow I forgot, Revit doesn't respect any merchable deadline. [/sarcasm]

[sbrown]

Walls and roofs certainly can be added to groups. You need to make sure you are adding the items that are hosted by that wall, ie windows doors. That maybe why your getting the error.

[clog boy]

They were added, even before the wall. (I'm talking specific walls)
It just doesn't make any sense.

[aaronrumple]

Groups just have to be carefully organized.
Of course you want to be careful grouping objects that will interact parametrically with objects outside the group. For instance - your roof. I would not use the pick wall tool to draw the roof if it is to be part of a group. Let it have its own free sketch lines not associated with anything.

Also break down groups into smaller more manageable units. If I'm doing unit layouts - the walls and doors are one group, while the furniture fixtures, finish flooring and other trim items are in a separate group.

Wall joins are another issue. Walls in a group will always take the fist and simplest wall join condition. You can end up fighting this one. You may be better off disallowing the joins.

Lets hope the work on groups in RAC 2008 resolves some of the other under the hood technical issues.

[clog boy]

I already feared that. ;) Thanks. If that's what it comes down to, our models should be minimalistic as well (while still being able to extract quantities).

[aaronrumple]

Some more information about what you're trying to do would be helpful. What's this "realestate model"? Prototype units and such? Option A, Option B?

[clog boy]

Let's put it this way, I don't know some of the English words but we're contracted by a company that rents houses to people. The intention is to put floor plans on the internet, so people can look them up by zip-code, (floor plans, 3d-model, etc) and the company also has to know how much maintenance has to be done. The same model is used for lots of purposes, and some of those are in conflict.
We are required to print rows of houses as well, including elevation views. We used to create linked files for that purpose, but that has it's disadvantages.

Our next approach is to draw the complete outer shell for a row of houses, and make a group for the interior. This way we attempt to create flawless total views, while still maintaining the potential to extract quantities (by filtering for identity data). Groups are an essential part of this approach.

Our supplier developed a theory to manage real estate models, and they're eager to put it to practice. We're hoping for the best

[aaronrumple]

You're headed the right way. I expect you'll find improvements to groups right around the corner from what I've read here about 2008...

[nnguyen]

we have been somewhat successful with group use. we have had our fair share of problems and have been able to solve most of them. what you must be careful about is that where ever a particular group occurs, everything, and i mean everything has to be exactly the same or Revit will tell you that the group you are mirroring or copying is not exactly the same so you would have to "fix the group".

as far as adding the walls with hosted elements in the group, we have found that adding the wall first is the best way not to get that error.

[clog boy]

I hope that will improve as of 2008.
I hope changing the version number convention will be a sign of overall improvement for Revit (as in, adding a goddarn window function? That would be my major motivation to learn .net)

[aaronrumple]

I hope that will improve as of 2008.
I hope changing the version number convention will be a sign of overall improvement for Revit (as in, adding a goddarn window function? That would be my major motivation to learn .net)
Window function?

[clog boy]

A function to create windows. Like in any normal architectural program.
A quick fix like in Arkey or Allplan beats modeling and programming a window any day, especially on weekdays. (we like to re-use them b/c of our project's short time spans)

[Dimitri Harvalias]

I'm with Aaron. Still not understanding what you mean by a 'window function'. You don't find window families do the trick for you and if not, what is the issue?

[knurrebusk]

I'm with Aaron. Still not understanding what you mean by a 'window function'. You don't find window families do the trick for you and if not, what is the issue?


He may be missing Archicads brilliant window-tool interface, combined with Revits brute power and flexibility

[Dimitri Harvalias]

I'm not trying to be difficult here, really, but not being an Archicad user, what makes the window tool so brilliant?

[knurrebusk]

It´s very graphical, and you can adjust tons of alternatives in a short time.
Revit´s interface is like stone age in this area, but more powerful in a disgusting brute way.