Sure fire approach to Tilt-up?

[archjake]

I've done tiltup with regular walls with reveals and now I'm attempting to do a more modular approach of Revit Curtain panels in a curtain wall system. The panels them selves have a chamfered edge and I'm using a 3/4" mullion that is set back as part of the reveal.

I've had problems using both approaches. Where is the happy medium?

Using the curtain panels has had the most technical problems:

1. Panels keep getting kicked out when a panel isn't rectangular. L shaped panels or panels for example.
2. Panels keep getting kicked out when a line of mullions change thickness and cause a non rectangular situation. This is happening at glass storefront at the concrete because of the two different thicknesses.
3. Wall hosted elements won't snap to a curtain wall when a panel is assigned. - I'm using the panels to get the joints I want.
4. If I used walls instead of panels I have problems with reveals not cutting adjacent walls.
5. You can't create a mullion that is a void.
6. You can't join the mullions with the panels showing a consistent material without a break - Thus I have to use the line work on wall sections, etc.
7. A joint is displayed on the back of a curtain panels where I won't have a joint. This creates a lot of work with the line work too again for sections that display a tilt-up panel in the background.
8. Panels that require mitered corners require different panel families.
9. I can't figgure out how to get panels to be placed by the face and when the thickness is adjusted it will grow inward without all new custom families including doors, mullions, glass, etc. All new!

Overall the process has been a headache.

Anyone have a good experience with this?
There is a ton of potentially to use the curtain wall tools because it is a system and one can swap out panels or reveals (not really reveals but mullions) on the fly.

Who has a bullet proof system and example?

[cstanley]

i sure wish someone had a good answer for this...

[scott.neumann]

We recently went through a similar exercise using curtain walls for tilt-up panels. We came to the same conclusion; in principal the curtain wall tool seems to be perfect but as we started developing the building all kinds of issues started popping up.

In the end, we used 8' lengths of basic walls and stacked walls set to Disallow join. It has worked great so far. The panel "joints" even show up in elevation. The only problem we have run into so far happens when a door is placed in two "panels" it only cuts one of the panels. We did a Edit Profile to cut the second panel and the problem was fixed.

[Andre Carvalho]

The only problem we have run into so far happens when a door is placed in two "panels" it only cuts one of the panels. We did a Edit Profile to cut the second panel and the problem was fixed.

If you join the panel with the wall using "Join Geometry" the door will cut both wall and panel, even if it is hosted only by the wall.

No need for another step as editing the profile of the panels.

Andre Carvalho

[twiceroadsfool]

We are doing Tilt Up using regular walls set to Disallow Join, and we split them at the joints, giving up the joint line in elevation and plan.

Its not *automatic* but we have virtually no hassles with it, either.

[scott.neumann]

Joining the panels does cut the opening but then the joint between panels is no longer visible in the elevation.

[dbaldacchino]

Scott, if you use that approach, you'll have to physically create a joint between the walls. If they touch, the joint line will go away. So in a plan view, simple tab on the wall end until the edge is selected and move it by the joint thickness, ex: 3/4".

EDIT: Actually, I cannot reproduce what Andre suggested. If I split a wall, unjoin both ends, insert a door in one panel and then join geometry between walls, the door will not cut the second panel. Also, my suggestion won't work as both panels are not touching and thus Revit will throw an error when you try join something that isn't joining.

The way i was able to split the panel and still have the door cut was as follows: Split wall, insert door on one side and it cuts both sides, select one join and disallow, select other join and disallow. Now you end up with a joint line but the door cuts both panels.

[cstanley]

which works ok until you get to elevations where the wall's lines need to be heavier, thus making the edges of reveals too heavy, and then we're back to the linework tool (which is not a very good solution to begin with.)

I'm actually coming around to just writing my own surface hatch pattern every time, no matter how irregular. takes longer up front, but saves a ton of hassles later. except that I lose the ability to schedule my wall panels, which stinks...

[dbaldacchino]

Yup, good point about heavy lines. I think I personally would treat everything as one wall and not worry about splitting anything and just use model lines on the surface of the walls to designate joints (selecting the wall surface as my workplane).

[mibzim]

We've encountered a similar but not exactly the same situation working with precast units.

It ended up being easier for us to create external generic models with some simple parameters. Inserting windows and doors was obviously a problem so we drew walls in a workset that was off by default and inserted them into those.

Check out the results, which were pretty cool. We were also able to create schedules with material take-offs that calculated the weight of each panel type.

[patricks]

I've done several tilt-up concrete buildings in Revit, and I always just used a concrete wall type with vertical reveals for panel joints. It seems to work the best with the fewest issues.

I have not done a building with pre-cast concrete panels hanging off of a steel structure, though. I'm not sure how I would handle that - walls or curtain systems. I guess it would largely depend on the building design.

[sbrown]

Its been over 4 years since I've done one. but when I did them in the past I used a concrete wall then I created a wall hosted generic model void family in the shape of the panel joint and aligned and locked it to the gridlines. this worked well and was very flexible. Now with the masking region tool I would probably opt for NO Void for perfomance reason. Then you could also have fine med and course representation of model linework on the elevations. and embed the joint detail component with backer rod and sealant into the family.

[dhurtubise]

Gotta agree with Scott on that one, the trick is not on the wall but the reveal.
I also did a project with GM family but it was exactly as outline for a very funky shapes. Get away from the CW tool for tilt-up.

[Mike_Maloney]

I recently experimented with Generic Model Voids with Parameters to adjust for differrent scenarios, Panelk Thickness, Joint Thickness, etc. My Wall(s) Types varied between having furring, insulation, DW, etc and some that did not. I add the paremeters becuase when I first made the void, it was cussing all thenway thru the panel assembly including the finishes, but when I added the parameters for adjustments, I could set the depths and well as jt width, chanfers etc. Works pretty cool, at least for me.

[patricks]

your void cussed out the wall?? :lol:

sorry, I knew what you meant tho. Any chance you might share that void family with us? I'd be interested in trying it out. Hopefully it would play nice with my concrete walls. ;)

[cstanley]

I recently experimented with Generic Model Voids with Parameters to adjust for differrent scenarios, Panelk Thickness, Joint Thickness, etc. My Wall(s) Types varied between having furring, insulation, DW, etc and some that did not. I add the paremeters becuase when I first made the void, it was cussing all thenway thru the panel assembly including the finishes, but when I added the parameters for adjustments, I could set the depths and well as jt width, chanfers etc. Works pretty cool, at least for me.

seems like a pretty decent solution for my higher-end users, but not too sure about the newbs...

i'd like to learn more.