'Levels' question

[J. Grouchy]

Say you have a large shopping center on a site that slopes...how does your firm handle the "Floor Plan" level? For example, when the floor plan from one portion of a building is two feet higher than the floor plan of an attached portion, the floor plan level on the lower portion reads -2'-0"...and the top of the wall on the upper portion reads 14'-0" while the adjacent one reads 12'-0".

Now, logically any contractor should know how to read this...but say you go on a site visit and the GC has built the back wall to 12'. Fortunately you are able to correct him, but I just don't like what's going on in Revit that forces me to do it this way or to use "dummy" level annotations. Some people may use actual elevation numbers as a workaround, but this is not how we work and so we are left with having to drop in dummy annotations so that the contractor isn't confused and all the walls are labelled 14'-0" and all the storefronts are 9'-4" instead of 11'-4" in a higher portion and 7'-4" in a lower portion of a building that has two 2' steps.

Is there any other option for having the base level 0'-0" vary from plan to plan?

[Steve Jager]

Would view regions give you the results you are looking for?

[J. Grouchy]

Would view regions give you the results you are looking for?
No...I'm referring more to the elevations and sections where levels are descriptive of the vertical dimensions of the project.

[sbrown]

I'm not following exactly. I would set this up with Levels for each floor and provide a building section.

So basically Level 1 = 0, level 2(or maybe you call it 1a)=2', etc. then walls go from level to level as normal. There are many reasons to do this. When you place columns a the lower levels they will need the level there for their base, ceilings will be tagged above the proper level, etc. Then with the proper view range settings you can have this all on one sheet with plan regions.

[J. Grouchy]

I'm not following exactly. I would set this up with Levels for each floor and provide a building section.

So basically Level 1 = 0, level 2(or maybe you call it 1a)=2', etc. then walls go from level to level as normal. There are many reasons to do this. When you place columns a the lower levels they will need the level there for their base, ceilings will be tagged above the proper level, etc. Then with the proper view range settings you can have this all on one sheet with plan regions.


That's what we do, but the problem is that while on one portion of the building, in the elevations, Fin. Floor is labelled 0'-0" and T/ Wall is 14'-0", on another portion with the exact same wall section the Fin. Floor is labelled, in elevation, -2'-0" and T/ Wall is 12'-0". Logically they should be able to understand that it is the same height, of course...but that didn't stop the GC from building it to 12' AFF because they were reading the wall height from the elevation tag. Sometimes no matter how many cues you give them, they will not catch them. When I'm separating these portions out, they are individual "buildings" with their own elevation sheet and section sheets. When taken out of context of the rest of the buildings, the level heights can become confusing to those who are working from the drawings.

I'm trying to think of a way to word this...but I wish there were a way to set the base finish floor level of each building to its own 'zero level' even though on the overall plan the floor steps...sort of like individual elevation benchmarks for each building.

[mlgatzke]

If this is being designed and built as a "complex" of different buildings, then you can design them as a complex - each in a separate project. This way, each building can have it's own 0'-0" elevation. Then, you can link them together into an aggregate project and show their relationship to each other. Otherwise, you will be asking Revit to label a level with an elevation that is "incorrect" just so your GC will understand it more easily and that is a premise that goes against the very essence of Revit's intrinsic design. Revit is incapable of creating an intelligent object (like a level) that it knows to be incorrect. That's the beauty of Revit's design.

I'm sorry, I don't mean to be blunt about your GC, only truthful and non of this is intended to reflect on you: I think the decision here is to either try to educate the GC to a higher level of understanding levels and accuracy (such as provided by the BIM framework - something they are going to have to deal with on an ever growing frequency) or use a different system that is less accurate and allows its users to manipulate the system into "faked-accuracy". Personally, if your GC doesn't know that one end of the building is 2' higher then another and doesn't understand that his workers will have to interpolate heights to compensate for the difference, I don't know how much confidence I would have in this GC.

[Andrew Dobson]

I have another problem with levels - they dont always show up on all of my sections.

One example is when I have a big site, and I create levels on one side of it and they dont show up when I cut a section through the other side of the site.

I now have the problem that I have deleted the original section and I cant see the levels in any other view to delete them. So I have redundant level 1 and 1a at the same level, as I cant see or delete lvel 1.

Is there a way to make existing levels show up in a section?

[gbrowne]

If you can click on the level somewhere, right click it and pick "maximize 3D extents" or "reset to 3D extents"... As for the level issue, surely defined project datums clarify the levels throughout the project, no? Or maybe I don't understand..

[lafe]

I would have to say that I have looked at several aspects of this problem, and have come to the conclusion that if I show the building as accurately as possible and try to anticipate the GC's confusion as much as I can and make a clean set of drawings, that is all I can do. I can't make the plans dummy proof. Some GC's are not going to read the plans, but if you have good ones, they are under contract to follow them. You have to be attentive on site visits and careful as you do you plans, but you can never make it so the Contractor reads them carefully until he has to replace an expensive wall because of his error.

I would just make a big general note on your wall sections that each wall is 14' tall and its base is shown on the sections of the building or something like that, and keep the levels clear because a different GC may read it the other way and try to put 2' of fill there instead of building a shorter wall. You can't make it dummy proof. Did I say that already?

[Andrew Dobson]

If you can click on the level somewhere, right click it and pick "maximize 3D extents" or "reset to 3D extents"... As for the level issue, surely defined project datums clarify the levels throughout the project, no? Or maybe I don't understand..

Thanks - that is a useful tip but wasnt quite what I was getting at.

I cant see level 1 or level 2 in any section or elevation view (new or existing) the levels were created in a section a long way away from where the current ones are, and the original section was deleted. - As I cant see the levels, I have created levels 1a and 2a at the same level as 1 and 2, which I can see.

I would now like to delete levels 1 and 2.

Hope this makes more sense!

[Calvn_Swing]

If you have views linked to levels 1 and 2, then you are going to have to find Levels 1 and 2 and do the "maximize extents" command. Then you can delete 1a and 2a. If you don't have views attached, then just delete the suckers and rename 1a and 2a to 1 and 2. To find the old elevations, make a section near where you first saw them, and then copy it around a bit in the general area. You should come across them eventually.

Also, be aware that you can hide annotations in a view. Usually you can find them again by mousing over the area they're supposed to be, but somewhere there is an option to reset this and have them all reappear. You might be able to find them in existing views if you can reset this.

Good luck.

[Andrew Dobson]

Thanks but I have tried this - I cant see the levels thaT i want to delete in any view - even if I create a new section near where the original one was - and if I cant see them, I cant delete them.

[Calvn_Swing]

Not to be obtuse, but you're sure they're still there?

Let me walk you through this one...

Go to any section view. Select a level you can see. Right click on it, and select "Select all instances".

This will pick every blinking level in your project whether you can see it or not. Then, right click on one of the levels you can see and select "Maximize 3D extents" This will be applied to ALL levels. You should now be able to find your old 1 and 2, delete your new 1a and 2a, and the Revit Gods will rain glory down upon you...

Or something like that.

Let me know if this doesn't work. (Do check to make sure the levels still exist first. As a test, go to View > New > Floor Plan and the dialog will list all the levels that do still exist. Cancel out of it once you find the old Level 1 and 2.)

Good luck again,

[Andrew Dobson]

I can create a new floor plan at level 1 by clicking view>new>floor plan and I cant create a new level 1 as it brings up a dialog box saying "The name entered is already in use. Enter a unique name."

You are not being obtuse, thanks for the help - I'm sure its something glaringly obvious and I cant put my finger on it....

[J. Grouchy]

I can create a new floor plan at level 1 by clicking view>new>floor plan and I cant create a new level 1 as it brings up a dialog box saying "The name entered is already in use. Enter a unique name."

You are not being obtuse, thanks for the help - I'm sure its something glaringly obvious and I cant put my finger on it....
Have you tried going to an elevation or section view and turning off the crop region entirely, then zooming to extents?

Is the level associated with a scope box?

[Calvn_Swing]

You snuck in a response while I was editing my post (clicked on submit by accident). You're sneaky fast!

[Andrew Dobson]

Have you tried going to an elevation or section view and turning off the crop region entirely, then zooming to extents?

Is the level associated with a scope box?

Yep have tried that.

How do you check if a level is associated to a scope box? - that sounds promising

[Andrew Dobson]

Sorted it - I turned off far clip active, zoomed extents and could see the levels and delete them

Knew it was something simple

Thanks for the help guys

[J. Grouchy]

another way is right click on the plan name in the project browser and select "find referring views" and the level should be highlighted in whatever view you select.