Revit 101's (Locking Lines )

[skpark]

Newbie Thought of the Day: I think the hardest part of the path to Revit fluency is mastering the super super basic stuff. The stuff that's probably so second-nature to the experts that it never gets documented in the help.

Newbie Question of the Day: After drawing a chain of lines to create a shape, I would like to lock those lines to various ref planes. But the little padlock (alignment constraint) only comes up if the lines were created separately, and/or if I use the align tool to align things I knew were already aligned. What little kernel of knowledge am I missing in my quest to become a speedy Revit sketcher, please?

Thanks!
Sun

[SkiSouth]

First, were your reference lines already created when you drew your chain of lines? If so, as you drew, a padlock popped up after each line was drawn. Before you draw the next line, simply tap that pad lock to lock that line.

You can also" false move" the line to get the pad lock to pop up. Use modify, grab the line to move it
then put it back (without releasing the mouse until its back in the original position) - This will cause the padlock to pop up again.

Hope this helps. Sounds like your headed down the right path. Keep it up.

By the way, the hardest part of mastering Revit is mastering Revit.....

[aaronrumple]

...or use the align tool to align the line to the plane which it is already on. This will also give you the lock.

[Steve_Stafford]

or sketch using the pick option, check the lock option. At least for the sketch lines that need to lock to reference planes. Then trim them all up...

[aaronrumple]

Which reminds me of one for the wish list... Auto Trim on Pick (See Wishlist)

[skpark]

Thanks -- I guess I'll just turn off chain when needing to constrain. In chain mode, the locks disappear too quickly.

But now a follow up question, if you all would be kind enough to entertain: can you constrain arcs to either a ref plane or at least constrain it's radius? See attached image. If I convert the temp radius dimension to permanent, I don't get a padlock to click. (By way of background, I'm trying to follow a tutorial on creating an arched window family. Haven't been able to get it to work for differing height parameters. The arc part gets goofy. I think it may be badly written tutorial, it didn't tell me to use constraints. I do need them, don't I?)

[aaronrumple]

I think this is what you are after. We went thru this last week at my office. Invisible lines were used to constrain the opening. Interestingly enough, once the opening is drawn using "Pick", the invisible lines can be deleted and the sketch lines "remember" their rules....

[skpark]

Aaron, thank you very much for the file, but are the arcs constrained to the invisible lines? Not sure how the invisible lines help constran the arc geometry.

It is pretty much the exercise I was working on. I eventually got the family working by creating the window elements with the smallest family type displayed (never constraining the arc). But I am still at it until I get the whole process. Trying to learn when the constraints are necessary and when not. (Like when you move a line, sometimes lines with coincident endpoints come along and sometimes they don't. Why and when?) Still can't believe how easy it is to work with ostensibly complex things in Revit, like, say, making a topo model -- but I get stumped when I have to go into sketch mode.

Thanks for all the help, by the way. Can't wait until I can one day actually help someone else.

[SkiSouth]

Start a family and build a few reference planes. Draw your arch using snap-intersection, give a couple of variables to the dimensions. You can then adjust the arch per your window tutorial. In this basic family, there is no dimension on the arch. The ends will follow the width or height typed in. Add the dimension for the radius, (per tutorial 1) and you have constrained the solution to valid widths that will meet the radius condition, although the point of origin of the radius might vary in relative height. In dealing with arches, I lock the sides of the arch to the side reference planes, and draw the arch using snap - end to the top of the arch walls, or the intersection of reference planes. If you try to lock the arch and the sides you usually get an "over constrained" error.

[skpark]

Thanks for the files, Skisouth, I am playing with them now and your arcs are doing exactly what I need. But what I don't get is how to "lock the sides of the arch to the side reference planes." When I draw an arch using your ref planes/ files, the constraint seems automatic. I move vertical ref plane, and arc moves with. When I start ref planes and arc geometry from scratch (or rather family template), I move a ref plane, and nothing goes with. I do get how to lock a straight line segment to a ref plane, but no idea how to lock an arc. I feel like my question is even more basic than the one you think I'm asking.

[ita]

skpark, if you scribe the arc loosely, then select one of the arc handles and hover it over the ref plan intersects, the two refplanes will highlight. Click it to the intersect (of the highlighted planes) and the application "Glue" will work connecting the handle to the intersect. Repeat for other handle - opposite end of arc. It will now work!!

Something that is not spelt out in the tutorials is Revit's capacity to undertake certain functions in particular instances. The above exercise is one. Another is changing the infil material on curtain walls. The only way to select the material is to use the Tab select method - to my knowledge there is no otherway of selecting the element.

Revit works best in what I call the "loose-tight" mode. Place model lines in loosely in the model (not right on the location as with the other CAD/vector type packages) and use the align tool or in this case the handles to link/lock (tightly) the line object to the refplanes. When you understand that process, things seem to work easily.

For me the Revit revelation was the power of the align tool - and to use that tool to align to the refplanes and lock. This understanding is paramount in getting families to work.

[SkiSouth]

nope - been there, always ask. There's somebody here that usually has already fought the battle once. The reason the arc moves with the lines is that they were drawn first, then locked to each reference plane. When you draw the arc, use snap endpoint (type SE) and attach each end of the arc to the end of the line you are working with, then select a point to set the arc of the arch.

Okay - opened your family. A couple of things. Use the modify command and add a parameter to the width and height of the reference planes so you can move them easily. If you need help on that, be glad to do that too.

Secondly, select your arc. The endpoints and center will get "grips" you can move. Select one of the ends, move it, then move it back to where it snaps to your reference plane intersection. Now note on the reference plane, half way down an open pad lock shows up. Pick on the lock to "lock" the endpoint to the intersection. Do the same for the other side. Now move your reference planes, and the arc will move with it.

Upon review of my previous post, I see where some confusion is arising. The "arch" I was referencing was an arch in a wall, with vertical sides and an "arc" for its top. Sorry about that, these are the side lines - referring to vertical sides of an arch opening, not the sides of the arc itself that I was discussing. You have it right though. The ends of an arc must attach to something, and tje interesecting reference planes are the Revit recommendation. Move the endpoints as discussed above and this should lock the points to the interesection of the reference planes you created. If it doesn't snap check and see if snap is on - from the top menu - Settings- Then Snap, then be sure intersection box is selected.

[skpark]

thank you SOOO much. I finally get it. Makes sense -- in Revit, it's almost always quicker to draw loosely and then be precise as a second step.

I would like to report that I am definitely in love with AR. I spent my Saturday morning reading a good chunk of the help files in consecutive order.

[studioCJF]

I have a similar question.
...Why do the reference planes have to be their before the object/model lines?
I was trying to modify an existing family by adding more reference planes and dimensions so that I could flex the Family/Model. What I found was that I could not associate the existing model with the new reference planes. I kept looking for a way to select/host existing objects to the new reference plane.
...Am I missing something? Or is the only way to do this is to deleate the portion of the model that you wish to flex and then remodel after you have added the referance planes? If so then sometimes you may be deleting/recreating the entire model.

Clark

[sbrown]

They call it sketch mode for a reason. A good way to work is to just sketch what you want, then come back and align and lock.

[Steve_Stafford]

As far as I know the only reference planes you must have in place first are those that you expect the geometry to exist on. When you place a solid extrusion in plan view, by default it is created on "Ref Level". When you do the same in a front elevation view, it goes on Front/Back by default.

If you want the object to exist on a different plane you must create it first and then assign your current work plane to it instead.

Otherwise you can add reference planes at will and constrain geometry to them. It is a good habit and practice to sketch out the reference planes that describe the flexing portion of your object first so you can test it and save yourself troubleshooting time later when you've got a lot done and it won't flex.

[studioCJF]

Thanks

I quess I will have to learn to "loosen up" a bit...Also reading some of the other post about the "false move" technique may help.

Clark

[SkiSouth]

You can add reference planes after starting the model and lock to them. What I think you are looking at is an extrusion or sweep and trying to lock the object, not the actual path or extrusion base. Be sure that what you are trying to move and lock is in the "purple" (sketch) mode. Sometimes this takes more than simply selecting the object. After you select what you wish to change, look and see if there is an "edit" selection across the top of the screen. Select that, then depending on the solid or void shape, you might have to select again to get to a point of editing.

If this is the case, this is also the level where you need to move the object and lock it to the reference plane. You can also add new reference planes at this level.

As you can see it gets a little complicated. At least you are going through what most of us
have struggled through - learning by experience.... Keep it up and keep those questions coming.

I'm kind of rambling so I'm stopping. If you want to post the family and ask specific questions,
be glad to help.

[studioCJF]

You are absolutely right it is an extusion/sweep I just need to play some more. But time is money!

Clark

[ita]

Clark, join the band of Revit initiates. skisouth is spot on


At least you are going through what most of us have struggled through - learning by experience....

In those instances where a sketch line is already attached (and/or locked to a refplane), unlock the sketch line and then move it away from the original ref plane. Using the align tool, move it onto a new refplane or onto the relocated existing refplane (whatever is the situation) and then relock.

Revit is not like CAD packages where intial accuracy enhances production. Unlike say Autocad which is brilliant at quote (sic) "drawing gearboxes" which requires accuracy to 15+ decimal places; in Revit anything under 1mm or 0.04" is not recognised by the application - and when you think about it to get an accuracy tolerance in a building of less 1mm is pretty rare event . . . as much as we would like to think we can be that accurate. :banghead:

The other thing to note is that if you are doing a sweep, the profile does not have to be connected to the red location dot. As long as you can see that dot you are working in the operating plane of the sweep and the sweep will work.


Keep it up and keep those questions coming.

[kimheaver]

Hi all,

When sketching lines with the chain option on, the padlock disappears as soon as I move the mouse ie it starts drawing the next segment before I can get to the padlock.
It works fine on single segment lines.

How do I click the padlock when in chain mode.

Thanks,
Kim

[ita]

Kim, loosly sketch the outline or profile shape, then usethe align tool to lock it onto the ref plane. at that point you can lock the sketch line onto the refplane as you align each segment.

[beegee]

Hi all,

When sketching lines with the chain option on, the padlock disappears as soon as I move the mouse ie it starts drawing the next segment before I can get to the padlock.
It works fine on single segment lines.

How do I click the padlock when in chain mode.

Thanks,
KimKim,
Have you tried ... Chain > Pick > Lock ( checkbox on the menu bar ) .... and then just trim up the sketch as needed ?

[kimheaver]

I didn't know that option was there, I'll give it a go.

Thanks,
Kim