2008 Camera View BUG

[Batman]

Attached are 2 different views of exactly the same objects. One is a normal 3D view the other a camera (perspective) view. Somethings wrong with the graphics, anyone else experiencing similar?

[ws]

No, doesn't happen on my installation (so far ;-))

It has the look of a graphics card problem about it maybe?

[Batman]

I thought that it maybe a card problem so I tried it on both the desktop and laptop. Same problem on both.

[dhurtubise]

Try changing the pattern on the wall to see if it still happens

[Batman]

Try changing the pattern on the wall to see if it still happensThe surfaces that are black have been painted as soon as they revert back to "Default" they seem OK. I dug a little deeper and played with the fill pattern. The problem seems to be caused by the particular fill pattern used in the material. For instance the one shown on the JPG's above is the sand pattern. Other patterns with similar density produce unexpected results.

But only in the Camera (perspective) views.

This issue came to my attention when I upgraded a 9.1 file to 2008. I noticed that the camera view colors were all haywire.

I also noticed that the color of the fill pattern will determine the solid color appearance, as in the above JPG's the fill pattern color of the sand is black.

[dhurtubise]

I suggest you sent it to support

[Max Lloyd]

seems like the fill pattern is a drafting pattern? I try to avoid these for anything I would show in 3d as scaling seems to be an issue.....

[Batman]

seems like the fill pattern is a drafting pattern? I try to avoid these for anything I would show in 3d as scaling seems to be an issue.....
I'd agree but when it's something as harmless as sand it doesn't create any problems, or at least never has until 2008.

[sbrown]

Its the size of the perspective. pick on the crop region and you'll see it defaults to something like 4x6 inches so any hatch patterns are too small to render, while your default 3d scale is 1/2inch = 1 foot, so just change your perspective settings to a large crop, make sure you check the scale box.

[Batman]

Its the size of the perspective. pick on the crop region and you'll see it defaults to something like 4x6 inches so any hatch patterns are too small to render, while your default 3d scale is 1/2inch = 1 foot, so just change your perspective settings to a large crop, make sure you check the scale box.Hmm, tried that but things only got weirder. As I adjust the scale (like you said) the density of hatch color (which appears as a solid color, no pattern) just gets lighter.

Attached is other geometry, you'll notice that it shades the floor and walls differently but it is the same material painted on. Once again this is a perspective view.

Did you try this yourself? Has anyone else been able to replicate the problem?

[sbrown]

Yes now zoom in on the hatch, its just a display issue. Revit on small hatch patterns when you are zoomed out just displays a solid color, if you zoom in or print you will see the hatch pattern.

[Batman]

Yes now zoom in on the hatch, its just a display issue. Revit on small hatch patterns when you are zoomed out just displays a solid color, if you zoom in or print you will see the hatch pattern.
Sorry, no. The actual pic above is in hidden line mode. When I go to print its as if it is painted flat white, no pattern visible at all. The isometric view is perfect, no problem.

[patricks]

I had a similar problem on an earlier project, done in 9.0. Whenever I wanted to show an exterior 3D perspective, I had to change the sand pattern to a model version of the sand pattern. But when I looked at elevation or plan views, the model sand pattern's artifacts where much too small and ended up looking like dots, so I had to change them back to the drafting pattern. I never could come up with a solution that worked for both 2D and 3D.

So I don't think it's a 2008 issue.

[Batman]

So I don't think it's a 2008 issue.
You sure, the very file I'm used in 9.1 was working fine. Only when it was transferred to 2008 it came up with this issue.

Congratulations on getting married!!

[LRaiz]

Warning - this may be too technical for the average reader.

Here is some background info. For drafting patterns the length of line segments and their spacing are defined with respect to their final appearance on paper. This makes the intended behavior of drafting patterns ill defined in perspective views. In case of isometric views Revit examines the angle between wall normal and view direction then takes view scale into account and recomputes pattern in model coordinates of a wall to produce the required paper appearance. However such computations are not mathematically possible for perspective views (there is no unique answer). However Revit still dynamically computes a single model pattern by selecting a single test/representative point. In your case it turns out that the density of resulting pattern is more then a single pixel and Revit replaces the pattern with a solid fill and tries to choose an appropriate color for this fill. Such side-effects are inevitable for perspective views when effective view scaling changes at every point on the surface. Come to think about it, you can probably observe similar effects with model patterns as well but since model pasterns usually have density that is better suited for large scale viewing Revit is doing a better job selecting the color of substitution solid fill.

[patricks]

Confirmed, I'm still on 9.1 and I just created a new 3D perspective view looking at a concrete wall with the Sand drafting pattern. It appeared as solid gray. It doesn't matter how close I moved the camera to the wall, it was always solid gray. I tried enlarging the crop size, and that only made the wall even darker.

I could not find any way to change the scale in a perspective view, which makes sense, as there is no real true scale in a perspective view. Steve do you know anything more about that? Axon 3D views have a scale but not perspective.

So then I changed the concrete surface pattern to a model version of the Sand Dense pattern, and it looked correct. The wall was light colored from far away, and when I moved the camera in real close I can see the Sand pattern on the walls.

The problem, though, is that the Sand model pattern looks like tiny, extremely dense dots in a regular elevation, which is not what I want.

So there is still not really a good solution that I know of, other than switching back and forth when you want to print a 3D shaded perspective view or your regular elevations in construction documents.

[Batman]

OK....

I suppose then this basically means that some minor scale setting or formatting has modified the fill pattern in my model from 9.1 to 2008. Looks like I'm the creek without a paddle.

Excuse me for a moment while I vent my spleen....

AAAAAAAAGGGGGGGHHHHHHHH !!!!!!

It's cool, I'll be OK. Thanks to everyone for their help.

I'll just keep fiddling with the view scale until it look close enough.

[jbeaman]

I'm having the same problem in 9.1. All black walls in camera view. I've tried to create a model pattern with the same hatch patter I used for the drafting pattern, but when I try to import the .pat file, it tells me that there is no model type patterns found. What's the difference between a model and a drafting pattern?

[fernando]

The strange is that my model in Revit 9.1 seem normal, when I open in RAC 2008 the same camera view, show the wall's black, Yes the walls had a sand surface pattern, but is strange why the same view and model, only get that problem when i update the model to Revit 2008??

[Firmso]

Attached are 2 different views of exactly the same objects. One is a normal 3D view the other a camera (perspective) view. Somethings wrong with the graphics, anyone else experiencing similar?
I once had the same problem but fixed it by going to Settings>Phases>Graphic Overrides
and under Material I made it blank. That was it.

[GS Fulton]

I have wrestled with this bug for a long time now. I just straightened out a view that was black all over by changing all the material surface patterns to model patterns.

George F

[Kaotik]

Thanks George for the imput! That solved my same problem but then created a new one. The gyp surface pattern that comes with revit is a drafting pattern. Is there a way to open the gyp pattern and convert it to a model pattern? if not, whats the next best option? I still havent found a way to create custom fill paterns. Does anyone know how? Thanks so much for any time spent helping me out with these questions.

[dhurtubise]

Open the pattern file and change the TYPE=DRAFTING to MODEL

[Gene Herring]

Hi folks I am also having the same problem as initially indicated. This is using the "stock" masonry-brick model hatch & color setting. As you can see from the attached images, it only occurs in perspective view! BUG????????

[Gene Herring]

Its the size of the perspective. pick on the crop region and you'll see it defaults to something like 4x6 inches so any hatch patterns are too small to render, while your default 3d scale is 1/2inch = 1 foot, so just change your perspective settings to a large crop, make sure you check the scale box.

Fiddled with Scott's suggestion a little more. Solved my problem! Thanks Scott.

[Kaotik]

i found the location and learned how to deal with editing and creating them, but my problem is i cant find the "Gypsum-Plaster" fill patter to change it to a model type instead of a drafting type. any help is greatly appreciated.

[SCShell]

Hey there,

To bring this back to life now that I am having the same problem (see below).
All of these finishes are drafting pattern "sand". Look how different they look in this camera view. The examples below show the camera views with and without any sand finish surface patterns.
(Bye the way, please don't judge the design....I didn't do it. I am adding on to this building.)

Thanks
Steve

[SCShell]

Hey there,
I have been playing with this now for a while. I never upgraded to 9 or 9.1 and I can tell you this....this has never been an issue in every release up to now.
I use camera views all of the time, even on CD's. It is unacceptable to have to change materials every time I want to show either an elev. or perspective. It is also completely unacceptable to have to change the size of the perspective to a huge drawing just to get my stucco to look right. I use 8" to 12" wide perspectives all of the time....I don't want to have to enlarge it, save it out as a jpg, then bring it back in. I loose the basic function of Revit that way. I like having my perspective view update with every change as I go.

Steve

[SCShell]

Hey there,
Well, I've been messing around with this one for a bit and have come up with only two solutions which work for me at least.

The first if to convert the Detail pattern for Sand and Sand Dense to model patterns. You will have to adjust the scale of each in order to approximate the original detail pattern for both.
Sand is at a scale factor of 50 and Dense Sand is exactly twice that, 100.

This way, your elevations and 3d view all look very similar to the detail pattern; however, now in all perspective views, you actually see the pattern correctly since it is now a model pattern.

I did run into one problem: When modifying an existing project which had all of my GWB shown with a detail pattern of sand......when changing the GWB's material setting to a model pattern for the Surface Pattern, I had to let Revit delete a few ceiling (GWB) mounted can lights. But only 4 out of 20 of them....strange.

The other quick solution to just get one perspective to look right (without actually doing the above method) was to simply modify the material's Surface Pattern for sand to a shade of gray rather than black. I played with various shades of gray and they have a pretty dramatic impact on the overall look of the drawing. Problem with this method is that it impacts your building sections, elevations. plans (for concrete), 3d views etc.

Well, you gotta take the good with the bad I guess.
All things being equal however, I do kinda like having my perspective views showing the stucco and GWB and concrete stipple finish now.
Below are both Model Patterns for your use.

Good Luck and hope this helps others.
Steve