Ceiling (Grid Only?)

[cek]

I'm trying to create a ceiling that shows only the grid (2x2 or 2x4) that will receive the light fixture and ceiling diffuser elements.

The Revit ceilings seem to be more of a plane with surface maps. I'm reluctant to go through and create all the voids in the ceiling edit mode but baring a simpler solution this may be all that I'm left with.

I've tried creating a generic 2x2 or 2x4 grid only family but when you get to the perimeter half and "L" shaped grid elements it becomes a nightmare creating all those pieces.

I was also trying to create the individual T-bar elements as a family but couldn't figure out how to implement the stretch control in the family (like a beam) to extend the T-bar from one wall to the other. Of course even if you are able to do this how do you get the light fixtures, HVAC registers and individual ceiling tiles (at random locations) to recognize the grid as a ceiling?

I've also searched the forums and can't seem to find a solution to this.

Thanks for any help in advance.

[twiceroadsfool]

I'm trying to create a ceiling that shows only the grid (2x2 or 2x4) that will receive the light fixture and ceiling diffuser elements.

The Revit ceilings seem to be more of a plane with surface maps. I'm reluctant to go through and create all the voids in the ceiling edit mode but baring a simpler solution this may be all that I'm left with.

I've tried creating a generic 2x2 or 2x4 grid only family but when you get to the perimeter half and "L" shaped grid elements it becomes a nightmare creating all those pieces.

I was also trying to create the individual T-bar elements as a family but couldn't figure out how to implement the stretch control in the family (like a beam) to extend the T-bar from one wall to the other. Of course even if you are able to do this how do you get the light fixtures, HVAC registers and individual ceiling tiles (at random locations) to recognize the grid as a ceiling?

I've also searched the forums and can't seem to find a solution to this.

Thanks for any help in advance.

If you model a thin In Place Extrusion, you can apply a Curtain System to it with the Curtain System by Face tool in the Massing toolbar. Then you can either define a Curtain panel family that has one "group" of the solids and voids in it, or you can grab every other panel and make it a "no panel."

EDIT: In hindsight, i dont recall how to make a panel a blank panel... Aside from defining a Curtain Panel Family that has a border and nothing in it...

its much heavier (processing wise) than a ceiling, because as you said... Its more than one piece of geometry with a Model Pattern... but its one way around it.

Also, keep in mind that ceiling based families will not work with it if you go this route...

[Calvn_Swing]

Not to be the BIM hypocrite,

But, why can't you just use the ceiling grid Revit provides? You can still host your lights, etc... I'm just trying to figure out why it doesn't work for you. Is it a graphics thing? Because if so, I think there are a lot of workarounds. If it is a scheduling thing, I'm still pretty confident the current content would work better than the alternatives.

Just curious...

[twiceroadsfool]

Not to be the BIM hypocrite,

But, why can't you just use the ceiling grid Revit provides? You can still host your lights, etc... I'm just trying to figure out why it doesn't work for you. Is it a graphics thing? Because if so, I think there are a lot of workarounds. If it is a scheduling thing, I'm still pretty confident the current content would work better than the alternatives.

Just curious...

One reason is there are a lot of clients (retail) using ceiling grids that dont have a ceiling tile in every space. So every other tile is opened to the underside of the structure. Sports Authority (at our local shopping mall) has a grid, and no tiles besides lights, for about half of the store.

To accomplish that with the OOTB Ceiling (which is just a Model Pattern), you would have to remove all those segments of ceiling with the sketch. Plus, sketching where lines have to turn at an intersection (like you would have to) doesnt tend to play nice...

[cek]

The problem was both a graphical one and a rendering one. Differentiating the standard ceiling with the grid only in the RCP could probably be handled by adjusting how the surface or solid fill pattern is displayed and then you are left with the rendering issue.

To solve this I just dropped in the standard Revit 2'x4' grid ceiling I was looking for, adjusted the grid pattern to balance in the room, traced over the grid lines using the "drafting - detail lines" and then went in and edited the ceiling by adding in a 2'x 4' void in the ceiling. It went surprisingly fast by mirroring the void cuts using the detail lines as the mirror reference and then using the align tool to clean up the perimeter conditions.

This approach while a little time consuming does seem to do the trick. It sure would be nice if this was already a function of the ceiling tool. Oh well maybe in a future release.

[Calvn_Swing]

I'm just thinking that you could model the ceiling and simply have it turned off in all views. You don't have to turn off the lights, etc... that are hosted in it. You are now 90% of the way there. The rest is either a simple 2D linework family (like an array of lines in both directions) or even drafting the 2D lines in the RCPs and copying or arraying them.

I know it isn't "ideal" but it would work, and work fast.

Then again, given the new VG controls, couldn't you just select the grid systems you want, and make them transparent in view? I just tried it and it worked wonderfully. You just have to make the ones you want to show solid as a separate ceiling element.

[twiceroadsfool]

2D linework doesnt help him out if he wants to render some images of the room. If he wants just the T bar, or some tiles and not all, he'll have to resort to multiple ceilings and/or a Curtain system, with a filter and/or custom Panels.

Im a big supporter of using the correct tools for the application, but the moment you talk about working around with drafting lines, youre limiting your potential with the 3D model. Id rather work around and use a "curtain system" schedule for the ceilign than not be able to show my client his room, becuase it doesnt model properly...

Im not picking on your method, thats just a reason why id use the curtain system. Mullion profile - T-bar, Panels = Ceiling tiles/Diffusers/Nothings...

[Calvn_Swing]

Im not picking on your method, thats just a reason why id use the curtain system. Mullion profile - T-bar, Panels = Ceiling tiles/Diffusers/Nothings...

Shoot, even I would pick on my own method in this case! I don't see why anyone else shouldn't...

This is why I asked how he needed to use the model/linework of the ceiling. If he's doing interior renderings, then the 2D route obviously doesn't work. I'm also a big fan of the correct tools for the task, but if there is no way to accomplish the task using the correct tools (ceiling tools) then your choice of workarounds is dependent upon how you'll use the model down the road. Almost every workaround, including the curtain family, has its downsides...

However, I think my last idea works great for all scenarios. Especially if you change the material for the ceiling to something 100% transparent. Then, in all 3D modeling views you only get the surface pattern showing. In all 2D views it shows solid, but using the element level overrides you can make it "disappear" without killing your surface pattern. You can still host all your standard ceiling hosted families, and everything schedules right already. Try it out, you'll love it...

Here is one of the few cases where the element level overrides are needed. I knew I'd find one eventually...

[twiceroadsfool]

Ideally, id like to see Curtain Systems get turned in to something called "Unit Construction Systems," so that you can use them to build any system families. People are using them for many unit based items, like Precast, Standing Seam Roofs, Clay Tile Roofs (lol), Ceilings, etc...

Id also like to see all the same ceiling options that we get for Roofs / Walls... Wall By face is one of my favorite tools, for simple things like Clipped corners on buildings. But ceilings are huge, in my opinion. Barrels, Vaults, coffers... Yeah, we have all the tools to do them now, but ceiling by face would be much smoother... :)

I like your last method the best of the ones you had, i just wouldnt want to be overriding view elements in a bunch of different views... (On our jobs) the number of views seems to snoball pretty fast, and id be annoyed to have to keep updating them eveytime they changed the ceiling config, lol...

[cek]

I just wanted to say thanks for all your help and great suggestions. You've opening my eyes to other possibilities that I will need to investigate further. If not for my ceiling problem definitely for expanding how I use Revit. It's easy to get stuck doing things one way. It just gets harder for this old dog to learn new tricks.

[Dimitri Harvalias]

I vote for a hybrid. Use the ceiling tool and graphically the grids will show in RCP, since they will always be there with or without a lay-in panel. Place your fixtures as ceiling hosted fixtures but modify the basic version for this client to include a simple extrusion that will act as your ceiling panel for rendering and scheduling purposes. The extrusion can be made parametric to flex according to grid spacing and you can control if it shows up with visibility parameters or using different material parameters. If need be you can have a fixture placed at each panel but create it as a 'blank' tile fixture with nothing in it except the model lines for the T-bar grid.

[thomasjpayne]

I have been trying to put in a ceiling system in the house that i'm doing. Its the Susp GB on Metal Stud. Its starts on 8-22 and it never shows up when i put it in but when i put a 2'x4' ACT System in it works fine. So whats the problem?

[eric.piotrowicz]

By default I think Gyp doesn't has a surface pattern applied to it. Therefore the ceiling gets placed but there isn't a pattern to see in the reflected ceiling plan. The 2x4 has grid lines by default so you instantly have a visual indicator that the ceiling was placed. If you want a pattern to show for the Gyp you'll need to edit the material, or better create a custom material so the surface pattern doesn't show up on ever Gyp surface in the project.

[casseysam28771899]

Have a look here: 3d ceiling panels (https://www.3dwallboards.com/products/3d-ceiling-panels/). These are getting popular in interior decoration. High ceiling, hard floor and dry wall can cause acoustic disasters in the office. From an aesthetic point of view, these types of offices are attractive and offer a clean, complex look. However, if you have ever had a conference call in such a room, then you will find that the echo problem can move fast. Even if a small amount of sound exists, the conversation becomes hard to hear.

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You can check https://www.3dwallboards.com/products/3d-ceiling-panels/. These are getting popular in interior decoration. High ceiling, hard floor and dry wall can cause acoustic disasters in the office. From an aesthetic point of view, these types of offices are attractive and offer a clean, complex look. However, if you have ever had a conference call in such a room, then you will find that the echo problem can move fast. Even if a small amount of sound exists, the conversation becomes hard to hear.