Dimension Floor plans to Framing or Finishes?

[tedg]

Hey fellow cadders...
I need advice to solve an argument. I want to know how most companies (and people) address this issue.

2-part question, consider each question separately


1. When dimensioning overall building floor plans, is it customary to dimension to outside wall face of studs or the outside finishes?

My argument is the foundation and face of framing line up with each other, and that is the assumed size of the building, the sheathing and finishes are outside that line, and that's what gets drawn and dimensioned to. I've been told that the "outside finishes" is what normally gets drawn and dimensioned to, I think they're nuts :screwy:!

2. When dimensioning interior walls, do you use: (a) centerline of walls (partitions), (b) face of studs or (c) face of finishes for actual interior room dimensions?

My argument is to use centerline of walls in a smaller job like house plans, and face of framing in larger jobs (of course there are exceptions). If you use face of finishes and the finish type changes, do you chase all those room dimensions?

I appreciate any advice on these issues.

Maybe I'm the crazy one! :banghead:

[Commissar Rod]

My argument is to use centerline of walls in a smaller job like house plans, and face of framing in larger jobs (of course there are exceptions). If you use face of finishes and the finish type changes, do you chase all those room dimensions?Like you mentioned with chasing the room dimensions, I dimension from what would require the least amount of redrawing if it changed. That is unless the person for whom I'm doing the drawing does not specify something else.

[tedg]

Like you mentioned with chasing the room dimensions, I dimension from what would require the least amount of redrawing if it changed. That is unless the person for whom I'm doing the drawing does not specify something else.It just makes sense to me. The framing is gospel!

When you draw a 24'x32' house, is it drawn and dimensioned 24'-3 1/4" x 32'-3 1/8"...
..or is the foundation 23'-9 3/4" x 31'-10 7/8" blah, blah....NO!

(I was just throwing in silly fractional dimensions to prove a point, I'm better now)

[CADDmanVA]

1. When dimensioning overall building floor plans, is it customary to dimension to outside wall face of studs or the outside finishes? When I did architectural drafting, Overall dims were always to the outside face of the studding, and the centerline of doors and windows. Like you said, it aligns with the foundation members. However, we never dimensioned inside walls except on framing plans.


2. When dimensioning interior walls, do you use: (a) centerline of walls (partitions), (b) face of studs or (c) face of finishes for actual interior room dimensions?Depends... In framing drawings you dim to the centerline. The thought here is the framers can stake out the entire job, then align the partially assembled walls on the string lines (or at the stakes). In finishing plans (or interior plans depending on who trained you :roll:), dim to the inside-most surface. When the finish carpenters arrive, the "skin" of the structure is up. How do they know (read: care) where the face of the stud is?

There ya go! My two cents.

[tedg]

When I did architectural drafting, Overall dims were always to the outside face of the studding, and the centerline of doors and windows. Like you said, it aligns with the foundation members. However, we never dimensioned inside walls except on framing plans.

Depends... In framing drawings you dim to the centerline. The thought here is the framers can stake out the entire job, then align the partially assembled walls on the string lines (or at the stakes). In finishing plans (or interior plans depending on who trained you :roll:), dim to the inside-most surface. When the finish carpenters arrive, the "skin" of the structure is up. How do they know (read: care) where the face of the stud is?

There ya go! My two cents.
Thanks for the input.
As far as the interior wall dimensions go, on larger projects (depending on which Architect we're working for) we tend to dimension to the face of studs, and the room sizes are considered "nominal". So if you were to add up the string of dimensions across the building, you would have the nominal room sizes and stud thicknesses and it would total the overall building size. We do this if the "nominal" room size is important. If not we would tend to do centerline of wall and let the wall type details explain the framing and finishes.

The person I'm arguing with tells me we should be using the face of wall finishes, so the room size is accurate. I think it's true on occasion when the client wants an exact interior room dimension, but this could be accounted for any way, using the other method.

Thanks again.

[CADDmanVA]

...The person I'm arguing with tells me we should be using the face of wall finishes, so the room size is accurate. I think it's true on occasion when the client wants an exact interior room dimension, but this could be accounted for any way, using the other method...You're welcome! Like I said before, I think it boils down to is who taught you to draft really. I see your friend's point of view, and your's too. I guess you just ask him who matters more, the carpenters building it, or the occupant hanging pictures on the wall?
Oh well...what's drafting without a "how to do it" argument every once in a while?

[Maverick91]

On larger, commercial buildings, dims are usually to column lines, which are typically to the center of columns. Then leave it to details and wall schedules to specifically determine what size of stud or sheetrock to use. A dimension will also typically go from the column grid to the outside of foundation.

[TerribleTim]

I'm gonna' add my $0.98 ($0.02 after inflation) because I can! ;) I have always done Architectural Drafting, but before this I was in the field doing the construction end of it. Exterior walls are ALWAYS to the outside face of stud. Like you said, that is where the foundation is, that is where the stud MUST line up. Interior walls are always to one side of the stud, and it better be the SAME side for each wall. The theory is, when in the field you snap a line where the wall goes. Once you stand that wall up, you have to be able to see the line. Otherwise, how do you know where it goes? If you dimensioned to the centerline of that wall, the builder can not see the centerline when he stands the wall up on his line. Interior finishes are completely irrelevant in the dimensions unless it is a hard clearance you must have. The you dimension it as "<> clear". Make sense? Hope I helped, if not sorry. I am at an Architectural firm, we do a lot of commercial work, and that is how we do it all. Like Maverick said, the Structure will be dimensioned to centerline of column lines. But the structure has nothing to do with interior walls or exterior finishes really. And even at that, a lot of Structure is dimensioned to outside face of structure at the exterior wall lines.

[tedg]

I'm gonna' add my $0.98 ($0.02 after inflation) because I can! ;) I have always done Architectural Drafting, but before this I was in the field doing the construction end of it. Exterior walls are ALWAYS to the outside face of stud. Like you said, that is where the foundation is, that is where the stud MUST line up. Interior walls are always to one side of the stud, and it better be the SAME side for each wall. The theory is, when in the field you snap a line where the wall goes. Once you stand that wall up, you have to be able to see the line. Otherwise, how do you know where it goes? If you dimensioned to the centerline of that wall, the builder can not see the centerline when he stands the wall up on his line. Interior finishes are completely irrelevant in the dimensions unless it is a hard clearance you must have. The you dimension it as "<> clear". Make sense? Hope I helped, if not sorry. I am at an Architectural firm, we do a lot of commercial work, and that is how we do it all. Like Maverick said, the Structure will be dimensioned to centerline of column lines. But the structure has nothing to do with interior walls or exterior finishes really. And even at that, a lot of Structure is dimensioned to outside face of structure at the exterior wall lines.Thanks TeriblTim, or can I call you Teribl :lol:

I agree whole-heartedly! I do both Architectural and Structural drafting, we always reference the column grid. When doing architectural floor plans, it's my preference to dimension to the face of studs for the interior walls, as you mentioned, the builder knows exactly where to put the wall framing.

As far a the centerline of the walls, I've done that in residential house plans with the assumption that the builder would use that line as a reference and offset half the stud width. I think that was the way I was taught. I think it was because the actual room sizes weren't as crucial.

Thanks for your input also, much appreciated.

[tedg]

On larger, commercial buildings, dims are usually to column lines, which are typically to the center of columns. Then leave it to details and wall schedules to specifically determine what size of stud or sheetrock to use. A dimension will also typically go from the column grid to the outside of foundation.I was mostly referring to architectural floor plans. We usually show the column grid and tie it to the footprint of the building, sometimes we'll reference some major walls to the grid.
But for laying out all the room dimensions, we would need to go from room to room in a string of dimensions, leaving one empty (for slop).

Thanks Mavrick91

[TerribleTim]

. . .the assumption that the builder would use that line as a reference and offset half the stud width. . .

Thanks for your input also, much appreciated.
LOL! You assume the builder can add and subtract?!?!?! ;)

I try to be entertaining if nothing else!

[tedg]

LOL! You assume the builder can add and subtract?!?!?! ;)

I try to be entertaining if nothing else!What was I thinking?
:lol:


I've learned the hard way not to leave ANY room for interpretation!

:beer::beer:

[TerribleTim]

LOL! It's funny how when I was in the field I use to say "Stupid Architects, those guys don't know sh*t! You can't build it like that!" Now, I'm on the other side of it and all I say is "Stupid contractor! Don't they know anything? It's like you gotta' take 'em by the hand!" My how life changes! :)

[Kevin.Sturmer]

FOS (face of stud) prevails in most instances. If the string is on the right side of the stud, this holds true (generally) thru that string.

I do switch over to FOF (face of finish) when the drawing is directly related to application of the finishes. Make sure you do not close the dim string though... there needs to be a section which allows for construction tolerances/adjustment. This comes in to play on the smaller accessible restrooms where the code necessitates specific clearances.