view range & underlays - I give up!

[Maximillian]

At one point I thought that I didn't know Revit well enough and thats why I could not get the view range and underlays to do what I wanted. After some time I've got about %50 of the results I am looking for.

I am setting up my template file to show the line of the second "floor" above, using an underlay, However there is no way to only show the floor in the underlay. I have to show the walls that occur at that level also? not good.

different example: if I want to show the 1st floor walls below, on a 2nd floor framing plan, the 1st floor underlay will show all of the plumbing fixtures in addition to the 2nd floor plumbing.
Who wants that?

My conclusion - There must be a separate Visibility/Graphics control for underlays, and the ability to make the underlay NOT halftone.

Are you handling this in a more elegant way?

[Steve_Stafford]

The role of Underlay in view properties is to permit temporary inclusion of things either above or below your level for coordination and modelling effort. It isn't intended for graphic output. Sounds like you've been led to believe otherwise.

For graphic output you should consider using separate plans and overlaying them on sheets. Set up your normal floor plans and put it on a sheet. Set up a RCP or floor plan that shows what you want to see in the same "view" excluding everything else and applying any overrides you need. Now put this view over the top of the normal plan view.

Now you have "one" view that does exactly what you need and you don't have to do much of anything to the overlay because it is already preset. Create a view template based on it and you can generate as many similar situations as needed.

People react to this technique as if it is an ugly workaround but I happen to find it pretty elegant and it has been useful in Revit since the beginning.

[iru69]

People react to this technique as if it is an ugly workaround but I happen to find it pretty elegant and it has been useful in Revit since the beginning.
I have to say that I finally started using it on floor plans where I also wanted to see the demo work, and it wasn't so terrible (though now with graphic overrides, I won't have to do it anymore!).

That being said, it is kind of awkward when you want to "work" on a view where it's critical to see the underlay as you work, and you can't see it because it's a different view. You have to place them on a sheet and then activate the view, but that can be an awkward way to work for extended period of time. Anyway, that's the resistance I have to it.

[Maximillian]

It is awkward..and I have been avoiding it..but i guess i will have to give in. There really needs to be a spot in the view/properties for a minimum of three fully controllable overlays/underlay views or call them something different. Then this would all be part of our view templates!

I am surprised that this isn't a more frequent rant or wish list item or really considered an essential tool.

Anything is 2008 that deals with this??

Also this sheet with views on top technique will not work with a roof dropped onto a floor plan. If you make the roof wire frame you see all of the lines under it that no one wants to see.

I have hit a very important wall here.

[Wes Macaulay]

How about overlaying views on a sheet? Then you can pick the view you want to work on by expanding the sheet in the project browser and double-clicking the view you want to work on. You could have multiple views with just the items you want displayed...

[Maximillian]

That technique will not work with a roof over another view. The roof seems to need to be in wireframe to allow the model below to show through. However you will see the underside of the roof, wont work. Actually anything overlayed needs to be in wireframe mode which can be problematic at times. This kind of workaround is really how revit should function. Perhaps there should be "SUB VIEWS" under each VIEW in the project browser tree! Yes thats it!

Factory?

If anyone has a solution to the roof overlay sheet wireframe problem, I would love to know.

It would also be good to be able to show only the core of my wall when i overlay them on a sheet. I am still messing around with this but have not had 100% success.

[kpaxton]

OK - this may take a bit of time.. and is an 'on the fly' solution (not templates) but works (as I've used it....) :)

For example - (In 2008 only) - Go to you first floor, turn on your Underlay for your Second Floor. Your above items show up. You want the floors, but not the walls. You can now select your walls (in your underlay) >hit Right Click > Hide in View > Elements !! Walllllllah the walls go bye-bye, but the other elements stay visible! Remember this is a View Specific feature!


different example: if I want to show the 1st floor walls below, on a 2nd floor framing plan, the 1st floor underlay will show all of the plumbing fixtures in addition to the 2nd floor plumbing. Who wants that?
This same thing can be applied to your example above - Create your 'Framing Plan view' with the first floor underlay. This can be in your template, but the 'real work' needs to occur when you're working in your file. Once you see your toilets on your second floor, and see the ones below from the Underlay, select the ones below and > Right Click > Hide in View > Elements. You cannot use 'Category' as this will also hide your toilets on the second floor! :cry: Oh, and the Plumber might.... jsut to see if he's got to make a change-order because the plumbing vent stacks don't use the same chase! (just kidding).

As for the Roof issue, here's what I've found: For example in a 2 story project - in the Roof plan - looking down on the entire project, I can get the second floor walls to show in the underlay with the roof being in Hidden line mode. My view range is typically this:

Top: Assoc. Level (Bearing-2nd) Offset: 25'
Cut: Assoc. Level (Bearing-2nd) Offset: 16' (to avoid cutting the roof)
Bot: Assoc. Level (Bearing-2nd) Offset: 0'
View Depth: First floor (or lower) Offset: 0'
Then I use the new tools to turn things off which i don't want to see. As noted in prior posts, I can't get the first floor underlay to show, but that is a function of the Underlay itself. To get around this, I typically have a lower roof plan and essentially do the same thing for that level.

Hope this helps I love this new tool addition!
Kyle

[ron.sanpedro]

The role of Underlay in view properties is to permit temporary inclusion of things either above or below your level for coordination and modelling effort. It isn't intended for graphic output. Sounds like you've been led to believe otherwise.


Steve,
I have commonly used an underlay in conjunction with linework to get this kind of effect. For example, I will pull in the RCP as an underlay, make the soffit and skylight edges Above with the Linework tool, then remove the underlay. The lines remain in plan, and if the skylight hole moves, the plans reflects this.
Are you suggesting this is not good practice? Are there any gotchas I should be keeping my eyes open for?

Thanks,
Gordon

[ron.sanpedro]

It is awkward..and I have been avoiding it..but i guess i will have to give in. There really needs to be a spot in the view/properties for a minimum of three fully controllable overlays/underlay views or call them something different. Then this would all be part of our view templates!

I am surprised that this isn't a more frequent rant or wish list item or really considered an essential tool.

Anything is 2008 that deals with this??

Also this sheet with views on top technique will not work with a roof dropped onto a floor plan. If you make the roof wire frame you see all of the lines under it that no one wants to see.

I have hit a very important wall here.

Maximillian,
I have used my Underlay,Linework, remove Underlay trick for this also. Unless Stafford argues against it, I would give it a shot. I just wish there was a dot linetype. I really like the look of a dotted line for the roof edge in plan. Comes from working For Arthur Dyson for a while.

Best,
Gordon

[Maximillian]

Kyle

How do you keep track of all the elements that you " hide in view", I guess they are like hiding a section mark in a view. This could be a problem after a while, if something new gets added and not turned off in some views.

gordon.price

HERE ARE MY REVIT CONDITIONS OF USE POLICY:
-Detail lines are only for sections and are discouraged.
-linework tool is not parametric and should not be used.
but I do appreciate your response...

I am I the only one that is seeing this as a major revit flaw? Or is it just a residential thing?

[kpaxton]

Kyle, How do you keep track of all the elements that you " hide in view", I guess they are like hiding a section mark in a view. This could be a problem after a while, if something new gets added and not turned off in some views.Max,
Umm.. Along with the new 'hide tool'... the Factory gave us the 'Light-bulb' tool... down in the lower control panel - click on the Lightbulb. [SEE IMAGE] This is a magical bulb, as it will reveal everything that you have hidden in this view. A red border appears around your window - and the hidden elements appear in a red outline. Merely select these, right click and select Un-Hide to have the appear again.

Because these are hidden in this view only... I don't need to "keep track of them" if I can see or manipulate them in other views. I don't see this as a problem at all - quite the contrary. If something is new and didn't get hidden - I see it... 'Oh - that doesn't belong there..." and turn it off too...

An important thing to remember is that even though there is a lot of automation that is happening with the program, it doesn't alleviate the user from keeping track of things within the building/design.

As for the comment regarding detail linework only in sections? I disagree. It would be nice to be able to model everything, have proper linework show up where it should... but it doesn't always happen in the amount of time allotted. I think it should be limited... but not ostensibly rejected.

[Maximillian]

If I had a truss tool that would make things work without DL's. Also i think the floor object should "contain" the joist system and allow me to edit and double up joists or change one to a girt ect. where necessary. I have to be honest, i am still evaluating the beam system tool so that may already be part of it. It would be nice if they moved with the floor.

[ron.sanpedro]

HERE ARE MY REVIT CONDITIONS OF USE POLICY:
-Detail lines are only for sections and are discouraged.
-linework tool is not parametric and should not be used.
but I do appreciate your response...



I would love to see it work better, but I find that Linework is parametric in that when you MOVE something the Linework changes are maintained. If you Delete and create new, then of course they are not. And in general I suggest people not worry about maintaining this stuff until right before a print. Kind of like all the lineweight fussing in elevations

Fun stuff Revit, especially on a Friday at 7 minutes to Happy Hour! ;)

Gordon

[rjcrowther]

Kyle



HERE ARE MY REVIT CONDITIONS OF USE POLICY:
-Detail lines are only for sections and are discouraged.
-linework tool is not parametric and should not be used.
but I do appreciate your response...

I am I the only one that is seeing this as a major revit flaw? Or is it just a residential thing?
Mate.....I reckon you are making it unreasonably hard for yourself.

Having said that, I you are modelling to the extent I think you are and hitting object styles and visibility graphics hard then through sheer usage you are going to end up with an intimate knowledge of the software which is not a bad thing.

Rob

[iru69]

I am I the only one that is seeing this as a major revit flaw? Or is it just a residential thing?
No, you're not the only one. There are lots of others who feel the same way (including me).

But we're not in a position to fix the flaw, only the developers can do that. So you do the best you can with what tools are there.

Just because there are other users who don't think of it as a flaw doesn't mean that what they're suggesting isn't ultimately going to be the best way to proceed. That's all we have.

My advice is to not set pre-conditions.

[Maximillian]

My clients want things changed all the time.. and when i use detail lines things just get skewed. Also most of my clients want a perspective view. If I use detail lines in the wrong place It comes back to bite me.