3D Views changing orientation on their own

[dbaldacchino]

Hi all,

I've been noticing this for a while but since I have not used 3D views in construction documentation, I didn't think much about it. Now I'm ready to use 3D views to issue them as part of the drawing set, and this has become a hot issue (not a perspective 3D).

To replicate this behavior, create a 3D view and rotate it a bit so it's not a perfect isometric. To further see the rotation effect, type in some regular text on this view. Now save the file and exit, then re-open and go back to this 3D view. It will be rotated differently from what you saved it.

Anyone know about this or if there's a solution? I have filed a SR and it is still being reviewed. Thanks!

[aaronrumple]

Hi all,

I've been noticing this for a while but since I have not used 3D views in construction documentation, I didn't think much about it. Now I'm ready to use 3D views to issue them as part of the drawing set, and this has become a hot issue (not a perspective 3D).

To replicate this behavior, create a 3D view and rotate it a bit so it's not a perfect isometric. To further see the rotation effect, type in some regular text on this view. Now save the file and exit, then re-open and go back to this 3D view. It will be rotated differently from what you saved it.

Anyone know about this or if there's a solution? I have filed a SR and it is still being reviewed. Thanks!
You need to hit F8 and save the view. It will return to the saved view each time you open the file. The unsaved views are probably just reevrting to thier original position when created...

[dbaldacchino]

Wow, I didn't know that! I thought once you change the orientation and rename the view in the Project Browser, that it would remember its last orientation/location. I know a few seasoned users that didn't point me to that and were surprised seeing the view changing it's orientation. The scary thing is that Support didn't just point me to this!! Thanks a lot Aaron.

[ws]

What a great tip :)

You're not alone David, I asked the trainer on my Revit course about the 'save view' button on the F8 mini-menu and he did not think it was of any importance.

[LRaiz]

Save view button is there because in order to get a better look users inevitably rotate, etc. 3d views. At the same time there is a need to avoid changing named views inadvertently (especially if they are placed on sheets). Back in the old days of either 2.0 or 3.0 we selected to implement save view command and have each 3d view maintain two orientation matrices; one for easy and convenient temporary change and another for persistence of views reflecting some longer term intent. User has to press save view button to make current view orientation persist.

[dbaldacchino]

Thanks Leonid. What seems to make this feature a little bit of an "unknown" I guess, is due to some inconsistencies in the way it works. The concept you described make sense, but I would ask....why does it only affect orientation and not all view settings? Why can I change the shading mode, whether it has a crop region or not, whether it has a section box or not and what position that box is? Orientation is only one aspect of a 3D view. If I use that 3D view on a document and then someone temporarily goes in and changes one of these settings, I would expect the view to return to it's original state: shading mode, section box, etc., and not just the orientation. Then I would say the save button makes complete sense. At the moment, it seems to only make partial sense.

Of course, one can argue that what I just said doesn'tmake sense since in the Dynamic View dialog, you don't change any other settings except Orientation, so I can see that point of view. Seems to me there's U.I. and workflow issue here.

[LRaiz]

We knew that some inconsistency existed and argued about options to resolve it. Based on users feedback we knew that users realized that they were making a model change by changing visibility mode, crop region and other things that you mentioned. They expected these changes to be persistent and appear on undo stack right away. Users would be annoyed if Revit required them to press an extra button to preserve these changes. On the other hand users intuitively expected spinning a view to behave like zooming and scrolling. They often did not think that this was changing a model. Time and again someone would spin a view just to examine a model and not realize that (s)he was destroying camera orientation that other person had wanted to preserve. Also don't forget about a user who wants to print an unmodified model without having Revit license. This user definitely wants to spin a view w/o this act being considered a model change.

So, even though the inconsistency does exist I think it reflects the inconsistency of user expectations. We considered other options to resolve this inconsistency but these options had their own drawbacks.

[dbaldacchino]

Thanks again for your response, always appreciated. I know, trying to figure out what users want (in various markets, cultures, countries...) is in itself a daunting task and usually unachieveable. You have to settle for some compromise. At least now that I know the concept, I can explain it to others. The analogy to zooming and panning is actually a very good one since in 2D, you're navigating that way without changing the end result on a sheet and in a 3D view, you add the orientation component, which unless you deliberately save it, you would be destoying the sheet view.

Well, it only took me a year and a half to come across this and learn about it....let's see how much more stuff I'm missing :)

[twiceroadsfool]

Great post, and great explanation. Thanks Leonid!

Reasoning like that is why we make everyone in the office have their own "3D WORKING" view. Inevitable someone wants to see something, or hide something, or shut off roofs, or whatever.... And then someone else goes in, and cant find what they are looking for, haha. So now, one view for everyone on the project, and stay out of mine! :lol:

[whittendesigns]

And that is my little tidbit of Revit learning for the day. Excellent explanation. I'm using save view from now on.

[LRaiz]

Reasoning like that is why we make everyone in the office have their own "3D WORKING" view. Inevitable someone wants to see something, or hide something, or shut off roofs, or whatever....
Actually, the practice that your office has adopted is similar to one other option that was considered. We discussed a possibility of introducing temporary/work views. Any changes to those views would not persist unless user explicitly saves such a view. Conversely, under this option any changes to regular views would automatically persist. This option was found to have its own drawbacks.

It is always best when an office develops its own processes which everyone knows and follows.

[twiceroadsfool]

Thanks for taking the time for the discussion. :)

Its very insightful to hear about how things have to be approached on the other end of the software. As users, we only see what issues it presents to us. Fascinating discussion :)

[dbaldacchino]

I have been chopping up the building in numerous 3D views and name them. This way I can work on the interior of the building easily. We have also been setting up user views that are just working views, so team members can change phase filters, visibility, section box settings, etc. as they please (disposable views). We use a similar approach for 2D working views, thus avoiding having users stepping on each other's toes. Documentation 3D views will go in their special folder (browser is sorted for a "View Classification" parameter) and everyone should know to be more careful with these since they're document views.

I honestly thought that the save button just prompted you for a view name just in case you were in a default view (the one named {3D}) and I thought that orientation persisted just like the other settings. But now I know better! We'll see how useful the contractor will find these 3D views. We decided to issue a sheet or two with pieces of the building showing structural demo, finished building views, etc. with no extra annotation and just a descriptive view title. We're hoping it'll lead to better understanding of the design intent and should eliminate a lot of flipping between different sheets when discussing a particular area.

[rjcrowther]

I think they will find the 3D Views useful.

I have been throwing a token 3D view or two into some drawing sets for some time now. Recently I had feedback that the 3D View was more useful then the Roof Plan that the 3D View was accompanying.

At worst a full 3D view just becomes a form of location diagram so they can easily place the elevations in their mind. I usually include one of these on the title page as a hidden line view.

I have in the past included a small 3D cutaway section to accompany the 1:50 section, again just as a location tool for the 2D section. I have been told that is useful as well with the advice to make sure it is labelled as 'notional only' or something similar.

I like your idea of keeping those numerous sections that you cut when modelling and then displaying them on paper. I tend to delete them once I'm done (only to re-do them because I forgot something).

Rob

PS I never knew what F8 was for either.

[truevis]

Ah, save the 3D view! I wish I knew that last month as I advised the workaround: Make camera views & turn off the perspective so the views won't rotate themselves willy-nilly.