Multiple drawings in One Layout Tab with SSM?

[briansi]

OK, our company is a little behind the times, and we've finally upgraded to a version of ACAD that includes Sheet Set Manager. Many of our drawings have multiple title blocks/frames in Paper Space. Is there a way to bring them into the sheet set manager AND use all the field conveniences without moving them to separate Layout Tabs? I know that there must be a way to do this that someone has figured out already, becuase I know this practice is not as uncommon as some of the snappy repliers would have others believe. Or maybe I just need to be pointed to the right thread where this is already answered....

Thanks
Brian

[sinc]

No, there is no way to do that.

The SSM is designed to be used with 1 layout = 1 plotted page in your sheet set. This is a core assumption in its entire design.

[briansi]

I know this can't be true because others claim to do it already... I've just never seen a how-to on tricking it

[sinc]

Well, then maybe you should ask one of the people who claim to have done it, because I'm fairly certain it can't be done. I'd be very curious to see how, if anyone has done it.

Like I said, the entire SSM is based on the 1 layout = 1 plotted page paradigm. I can't see any way of hacking that, let alone any reason why anyone would want to. The 1 layout = 1 plotted page paradigm works very well.

[rkmcswain]

I know this can't be true because others claim to do it already... I've just never seen a how-to on tricking it

Just to clarify....

Do you mean multiple plotted sheets in a single layout -or- multiple layouts in a single DWG file?

[briansi]

Ok, to clarify, I refer to multiple plotted sheets in a single layout ("tab"), NOT multiple layout "tabs" in one .dwg. I thought I had it by naming the different plot setups as "Layout2" and so forth, and then I renamed the layout tab that contained my multiple sheets (from "Layout1" to "Existing Conditions" or something similar) and it lost them again and won't allow me to add them again.

[james.126519]

im confused...

even without SSM, i have never seen more than one "paper layout" in a paperspace tab.

i understand that it is certainly possible to have multiple title blocks and viewports in paperspace, but when you go to plot you have to either select a preset page setup that is windowed around a particular title block, or individually window each title block and click plot.

one of the main selling points to me of using SSM is the ability to have a template title block set up that each time you create a new sheet it is automatically imported with any and all of your page setups programmed, so you can highlight a group of sheets in the sheet set manager and just plot them.

if you would like some help setting up a SSM i would be happy to help. just send me a message. i can send you some examples if you like.

[briansi]

I assure you that there is a valid reason for doing it this way, and not going to one sheet per tab - in Civil plan sets, for example, when we work on a roadway corridor, much of the text, notes, callouts, etc. are the same, these drawings generally have large x ref's behind them (existing conditions, proposed conditions, existing 2ft contours, etc) so if we have to switch layouts, or from model space to paper space often, it's constantly regenerating, and sometimes rather slowly (yes we do have fairly new equipment, it's just how large the drawings are) This practice may seem silly, but then we can annotate all the sheets in a corridor set extremely quickly. In the past we have used named plot setups to differentiate between them, and we do use page/title block templates to bring in all the fields for sheet set manager. This make sense?
Something like this picture:

[SRBalliet]

Are you using the Page Setup Manager on this Layout (right click on the Tab) or are you rewindowing three times, once for each plot?

[james.126519]

Unfortunately I think what you are doing defeats the whole reason to use sheet sets.

you mentioned that regen time is the problem when switching between layout tabs. it should not be as much of a problem with sheet set manager since you only use one layout tab in one drawing file as a sheet. there are no "multiple" tabs in a drawing to regenerate this way.

[sinc]

I assure you that there is a valid reason for doing it this way, and not going to one sheet per tab - in Civil plan sets, for example, when we work on a roadway corridor, much of the text, notes, callouts, etc. are the same, these drawings generally have large x ref's behind them (existing conditions, proposed conditions, existing 2ft contours, etc) so if we have to switch layouts, or from model space to paper space often, it's constantly regenerating, and sometimes rather slowly (yes we do have fairly new equipment, it's just how large the drawings are) This practice may seem silly, but then we can annotate all the sheets in a corridor set extremely quickly. In the past we have used named plot setups to differentiate between them, and we do use page/title block templates to bring in all the fields for sheet set manager. This make sense?
Something like this picture:

It looks like you have a number of issues going on.

First off, are you using Map for creating Civil plan sets? Map isn't really designed for that task. While it is extremely useful in the Civil world, it is not designed for Civil engineering - it is more of a GIS tool. The two are related, but are not the same thing. For Civil plan sets, Autodesk has a couple of applications that are specifically designed for the task - the old mainstay Land Desktop, and its new replacement, Civil-3D.

The second issue is that it sounds like you are doing all your annotation in paperspace. That is common for some applications, but not in the Civil world. Both Land Desktop and Civil-3D have built-in functionality that dramatically speed up the placement of labels like that. And as is typical in the Civil world, they place all of these annotations in modelspace. And the bulk of all other model annotation is also usually placed in modelspace.

It can take a while to get the hang of which drawing should contain which information, but in general, you can reach the point where either Land Desktop or Civil-3D will blast in a lot of your labels automatically. You do not need to create them manually at all. This typically saves far more time than trying to manually create all labels for multiple plan sheets in one paperspace layout tab. Since the labels all get blasted in at once by special Land Desktop or Civil-3D features, the regen issue doesn't really come into play.

Once you have all your model drawings created, you then create your plotable sheets. These are usually seperate drawing files, 1 DWG per plan sheet. It is also possible to put multiple plan sheets in a single DWG file, using 1 Layout tab per plan sheet, but the general use would be 1 DWG file = 1 plan sheet.

Civil-3D also has the ability to create references to complete objects, such as Surfaces and Corridors, and completely change their appearance. These data references are similar to XREFs, except the entire appearance of the object - including all labels - can be altered each time the object is referenced.

Each plotable DWG file contains XREFs or data references to the appropriate model drawings or Civil-3D objects. Assuming you split your model data into an appropriate set of DWG files, you can use XCLIP to clean up partially-visible items, like text labels that get cut off by the viewport boundary. You can also place additional labels in modelspace of your Plot DWG. Your title block is held in Paperspace in the Plot DWG. Then, in the Sheet Set Manager, you import all of your Plot DWG files as pages in your sheet set.

At the end of this, you have data that is spread over a number of different files. This lets multiple people work on the project at once, because data is spread over so many different DWG files. It also results in less duplicate work, since the same text labels can be shared among multiple plan sheets. All Information in the title blocks should be entered using Fields, and the data is kept up-to-date using the SSM. And of course, it is safer than putting everything in one DWG file, because a single DWG file that contains a ton of stuff is more-likely to get corrupted than a set of smaller DWG files that have information spread out. At first, it may seem annoying, putting data in so many different DWG files. But it has a lot of benefits that, IMHO, outweigh the annoyance of needing to switch between DWG files while working in a plan set. In fact, it really works quite well. And it also reduces the need to use another oft-abused feature - the dreaded Layer States. Instead, use VISRETAIN in your plottable DWG sheets.

The workflow I just outlined is the "typical" workflow. However, if you decide it really doesn't work for you, then you can probably continue to do what you currently do. Except, like I was saying, the SSM is designed with 1 Layout = 1 Plot Page as a core assumption in its design. Everything from adding new pages to a Sheet Set to using page setup overrides assumes you have 1 Layout = 1 Plot Page. There is no way around this fact. And even if that weren't true, it is also generally better to avoid using Named Views to plot multiple pages from one layout tab - that gets confusing to everyone except those who create the file.

But if you really want to continue your current workflow, the easiest thing to do is to wait until the very end to add your sheets to the SSM. Go ahead and create your plan set the way you currently do. Then, before you add your sheets to the SSM, split your single layout tab into multiple layout tabs. For example, the image you posted contains three plan sheets in one layout tab. Once you get all of your labels placed, copy that layout two times, so you have three identical layout tabs. Then delete two of your plan sheets from each layout tab. In the end, you will have Page 1 on Layout tab 1, Page 2 on Layout tab 2, and Page 3 on Layout tab 3. Then you can add the three layout tabs to the SSM as three pages.