Phasing and Design Options conflict

[dbaldacchino]

Here's a typical scenario: You model an existing building and everything resides in the main model. So your elements are set to Existing phase. Now you need to come up with two schemes for a layout and you create two design options. You try to add a New Construction door (Design Option 1) to an Existing wall (main model) and Revit doesn't let you.

The only option seems to be to duplicate the existing wall and add it also to your design option. This doesn't seem right to me, although I understand the hosting issue/conflict. I think Revit should allow you to add a new door in an existing wall under a specific design option. Any thoughts?

[carlosb.101393]

I have been complaining about it and adding to the wish list, revit is more designed for new construction and commercial, but when you use revit for remodeling and residential, you have to adapt to revit, your scenario assumes just one object and two design options, I would just copy the existing wall two times one for each design option, but when you have the same scenario for 20 or 200 objects it gets more complicated, at that point we, as a residential and remodeling company, we just copy all the existing building or the wing where the remodel part is going to take place to each design option, it is easier than having 2 or more files, one for each design option.
The other part that bothers me too is printing, you can not have ready your drawing just for printing all of your design options, you need to switch, and you have to design a title block that works for design options for printing to give the set the name of the design option printed otherwise you have to change the title name on each view to match your design option.
I'm wonder what others are doing on this regard too.

[lev.lipkin]

In Revit each element has its unique shape which could not change with design option. A wall could not have opening for the door in design option while having no opening in main model.

To add a door to a wall in Design Option (say) 1, you would need to create Design Option "No Door" and add wall to such design option set.

[kpaxton]

David,

I think Lev hit it on the head (and got here just seconds before I did!) lol.

I was thinking of it this way: Let's say you have an existing wall, and you 'add' a door to this wall, in Option 1. - That portion of that existing wall then needs to be 'demolished' , then the new door added in that opening. This is just like it is in the 'real world' - that contractor is going to wants to know where to take his Sawzall and cut!!

For giggles, let's also say that in Option 2 you also want a new door in the same existing wall, but say it's location is 2'-0" to the right, but is still over where the door in Option 1 wants to be. Option #2's door will also want 'demolish' part of the existing wall where it wants to be. In your scenario where you want the model to accept this, there would be an inherent conflict in the mathematics as some portion of the wall wants to be there, and some removed and some filled in -all at the same time.

I guess I'm not having the same difficulty in understanding (which I did in the past...) that I need to 'temporarily' copy a portion of the existing wall into my Design Option. They are options. The idea is at some point in time, an Option will be selected (Door #3 Monte, Door #3!) as the Primary and eventually integrated back into the Main Model. "This is what I want, Mr. Contractor!" The other options becoming nothing more than memories. Obviously, some of us use it this way and some of us don't - as in the case of wanting multiple options to show in a home. Either way, the D.O. sets are a powerful tool. Copy/ Paste is your friend!!

I hope this helps shed some light.
Kyle

[kpaxton]

...The other part that bothers me too is printing, you can not have ready your drawing just for printing all of your design options, you need to switch, and you have to design a title block that works for design options for printing to give the set the name of the design option printed otherwise you have to change the title name on each view to match your design option.I'm wonder what others are doing on this regard too.Carlos,
I'm a little confused as to how you're going about this. I've worked on Commercial, remodeling and Custom Residential projects all with Design Options - without any hassle when it comes to Views, Printing, Sheets, etc. Some of this boils down to ability to organize and use the Project Browser. Also - the way in which you organize and name your Views will have an impact. You can easily organize your D.O.s in such a manner as to only print these out, if you'd like or view only the D.O. Views in the project browser - all without losing the other views or information.

Typically I will create Views to specifically show a particular Design Option. This is important, as these are Options, and not the main model (or existing conditions). This view can be set to view this option via the View Visibility > Design Options tab. This is MUCH easier than having to manually switch your floor plan views back and forth each time you want to see the Option. Again, use you Project Browser to organize these. I've had situations where I need to show the main room and three different options for that room that could go there. This means you have 4 Views - 1 main/3 options. I guess I've accepted this and to me this is not a big deal at all. I actually like having more control over the model in this manner.

As to your comment regarding the Titleblocks - I'm not sure how you're doing this to cause you headaches. Remember, the Sheets are going to show whatever you want to show as it's printed out. If you want to have all your Options on a 24x36 sheet? you can. Want them on each on their own 11x17 sheet? you can. The only thing to remember is that a View can only be on one Sheet at a time, unless you have 2008, then you can create Dependent Views - which can now be on different sheets.

Hope this helps to shed some light.
Kyle

[dbaldacchino]

Thanks all.

I understand how it works. I have no problem with duplicating walls in different design options if they are new walls. I'm just picking and choosing configurations, materials, locations, sizes etc. They are depicting possible scenarios of future work. I just have a problem with duplicating existing elements, because they already exist in their current configuration and there's only one of that element! As I said....I know how to make it work, it just seems "wrong" to me :shock:

If you look at it from a purely programming standpoint, there is no "Existing" or "New Construction" phase.....those are just names, placeholders; so everything is just relative to something. And when you schedule elements, you can set the design option you want to collect data from, so you shouldn't be worried about duplication. It just seems that from a logical standpoint, I should be able to cut an opening in an existing wall and assign that door to a design option without having to make a duplicate of the wall. At least in this case, it seems that the natural "architectural" workflow isn't satisfied and we have to make this little concession to make things work. No big deal, it just doesn't seem right to me :)

[carlosb.101393]

Thanks for your post Kyle, I was refering to SD phase of projects for example: when you need to print a set of drawings with options for different configurations, there are different scenarios but two basic ways to setup revit, one that you described, have different views one for each design option, that you drop on a sheet for printing, or second option just have one view that you drop on ane sheet and you describe the design option on the title block let's say floor plan A, floor plan B, but each time you need to print different design option you need to stop printing, change design option and go to print de next one, and that is my problem, unless I missing something, but it gets worst, when you want to show two design options on one sheet, you just can't unless you make two prints on the same sheet, as I said unless I'm missing something.

[dbaldacchino]

I think you are missing something...you need to duplicate your view, and change the design option in Visibility/Graphics. You can then place BOTH views on the same sheet (or separate sheets) and each can have their own unique view title.

[carlosb.101393]

Why I did not see this before? That is the part I was missing Kyle and David, you just shared the most valuable secret of revit for design options!!! believe it or not, I did not know about this for 1.5 years I have been using revit. It is embarrassing but I admit it, and that is why I'm on this forum to learn.

[dbaldacchino]

Glad we could help :) Trust me, you're not alone. Just a few weeks ago, I learned that you have to hit the save button on the Dynamic View dialog box or your 3D view's orientation won't be maintained haha. There's always some nuance to learn!

[kpaxton]

Carlos - glad we could be of assistance - that's why we're all here. It's pretty simple once you get the hang of it.

David, Dude - in no way did I feel that you didn't know this. ;) I guess I took what you had and wanted to expound up it - a bit more for Carlos' (and others) sake than yours. I understand what you mean by it not being that intuitive, but... for me, it does make sense - for that tool. I think I was trying to make a point regarding about the math behind the options - which I KNOW you know very well.

You said- "I just have a problem with duplicating existing elements, because they already exist in their current configuration and there's only one of that element!" I agree, however, my point goes back to what you're wanting to do: make an OPTION that you will eventually make a choice from. In your example, let say you put a door in an option. The door would then have to "reach out to" and interact with the Existing element in the main model. This is all fine if you've got one, but when you start looking at a multitude of options, with each element having to interact with that one existing element - with some possible overlaps and conflicts - the math would inevitably return an error. (I could see this bogging down worse than AMG Shadows in release 8.0!!!)

Programatically speaking, you're absolutely correct: "there is no spoon".

Is life nothing more than a large IF-THEN loop?
Kyle