Curious - When is a file size "too big"?

[nnguyen]

I have read most of the thread dealing with file size, but couldn't really find a concrete answer over what is expected of the file size in Revit. A project that I am working on is about 700,000+ SF (Timeshare + Parking Structure + 1 Admin bldg + Site work (but this is minimal)). The file size is usually around 180MB after compacting the central file, auditing the file, purge unused families, mostly 2d families unless it is necessary for 3D elements, reviewed all warnings and cleared most of them (certain ones we have to live with) and other tips offered at this and other sites to keep file size small. But during the work day, the file can go up to 300MB if I don't compacting when STC or Saveas (local file).

So, is that too big? Our IT guy tells us that it seems too big. FYI, the Timeshare is the main file (i.e. sheets are in there) and has other Revit files linked in (Parking structure, Admin bldg, and structure), and no CAD files (avoiding them at all cost).

Thoughts? What sizes are everyone's Revit file getting (Big projects like, hospitality, healthcare, schools, government bldgs, etc.)?

[Steve_Stafford]

Hi Nan,

You left out the all important piece...how is performance? Okay, bad...fine? That is the biggest "tell"...the project "speaks" to you and says, "I'm not feeling well, I need more worksets" or "I need to be split up" or "please, please clean up those warnings"... File size will bloat as you work in them because the data is in "flux", this is normal. When you close the files it should shrink and Compacting should shrink it further.

File size as a single metric is a red herring, don't eat fish everyday, everything in moderation :smile:

[nnguyen]

Hi Nan,

You left out the all important piece...how is performance? Okay, bad...fine? That is the biggest "tell"...the project "speaks" to you and says, "I'm not feeling well, I need more worksets" or "I need to be split up" or "please, please clean up those warnings"... File size will bloat as you work in them because the data is in "flux", this is normal. When you close the files it should shrink and Compacting should shrink it further.

File size as a single metric is a red herring, don't eat fish everyday, everything in moderation :smile:

You are right Steve, I did leave out the most important part. Yeah performance is bad at times. I would say that it isn't really the slowness (i have learned to live with it for the most part), but rather the out of memory and the fatal errors that is troublesome. I have done all the things you have mentioned above. I typically check the warnings everyday (i am actually doing it right now), compact the file 3 times (if necessary which seems like it is)a day, we have 20 worksets (too many?), and broken the building into 3 parts. I typically only open the worksets that i need to work on, only have at most 2 windows open, and no other application open (except on occasion outlook and of course this forum :). There is only one type of warning we have to live with, but for the most part I cleaned up what i know..trying to get other team members to do it too. I am afraid that I am the only one on my team hearing the project/Revit speaking to me....any other advice?

Ngan

[clog boy]

Performance is an issue, yes. But don't mind those IT-guys, we think into the future. They're gonna have to be next ;)
Breaking the building apart is a good thing, however I don't have experience with 'big' projects. Don't use too much redundant views or library items, only what you need. If you keep it to that level IT will usually give you what you need. Other than that, I haven't heard of any rule of thumb.

EDIT: you can set Revit to compress files when saving (slower).

[twiceroadsfool]

We have Central files at or slightly above 200 MB when they are compacted, and during the day they baloon up pretty large (400MB).

Performance in them remains alright, but obviously a bit laggy when compared to a brand new project, but thats to be expected. For us, it becomes imperitive to stress to everyone on the team that they observe the benefits of using the worksets properly: Dont open ALL, use Specify, open what you need, STC often, etc...

Ive found the review warnings dialogue creeps up, so i try to get in the central file and clean it out as much as possible. I see a pretty significant size AND performance correlation to the number of warnings residing in that dialogue.

Our project is 775,000 sq. ft. of retail, demolition/renocation and new work. There are 4 phases with different buildings, 3 central files. The smallest is 185MB, the largest is 230. Thats through CD's and the majority of the leasing documents (also done in the model).

[cstanley]

in my experience, 180 can be a bit large. i've worked on 180's and even 200's. break the file up. when working, unload the ref'd files you don't need to see. make a drafting view with nothing in it (we just have text that reads "simple view.") use that view to close the file, and open it on that view. also, don't work in 3d if you can help it. kicking on the 3d button loads everything into memory, and you shouldn't always need that much processing overhead. close revit completely a few times a day to help purge memory. revit does not release memory during your session, even if you close the views. open only the worksets you need (through file>open) use the temp hide/isolate button liberally to keep processing down. every time you open a view or print a sheet (or multi-sheets) revit loads them into memory and won't let them go. pay attn to that one...

oh, and shut down itunes if you're using it. it's a performance hog as well. use something with smaller demands, like winamp or others. same with acad.

hope at least some of this isn't what you've heard before...

[jcoe]

Have you ever used the audit feature when opening a file? I have found that running this as part of periodic file maintenance will sometimes help performance with larger files.

[nnguyen]

Have you ever used the audit feature when opening a file? I have found that running this as part of periodic file maintenance will sometimes help performance with larger files.

Yep, I usually do it at least once a day. Usually after a major fatal error.

[nnguyen]

We have Central files at or slightly above 200 MB when they are compacted, and during the day they baloon up pretty large (400MB).

Performance in them remains alright, but obviously a bit laggy when compared to a brand new project, but thats to be expected. For us, it becomes imperitive to stress to everyone on the team that they observe the benefits of using the worksets properly: Dont open ALL, use Specify, open what you need, STC often, etc...

Ive found the review warnings dialogue creeps up, so i try to get in the central file and clean it out as much as possible. I see a pretty significant size AND performance correlation to the number of warnings residing in that dialogue.

Our project is 775,000 sq. ft. of retail, demolition/renocation and new work. There are 4 phases with different buildings, 3 central files. The smallest is 185MB, the largest is 230. Thats through CD's and the majority of the leasing documents (also done in the model).

Have you gotten alot of memory warnings because of the file size? Saying it can't access the central file (when STC) because there isn't enought memory to open it? or other memory warnings?

[twiceroadsfool]

When our files approach the size they are currently at (hovering around 200MB), it becomes imperitive that people use the measures that Revit gives you to get the most ouf of your hardware:

1. You cannot load the entire model. Unless you have a top end workstation, its just not practical. We tell people to Specify Worksets, and only take Worksets that they need to complete a certain amount of work. Our worksets are broken up in to building area (and further by discipline, etc)... But, you shouldnt need to load area 3 if youre working in area 1.

2. STC has to be done often. We tell people to save locally right before STC, just in case anything happens. We say this, because when people try working for an hour and then STC, it tends to kill the program when it trys to use too much memory. Some of this is also because we have some legacy workstations that were working to get out of the rotation still.

We have some Dual Core 3.4's with 4GB of RAM and the 3gig Boot Switch enabled, and we have no issues with the STC. If we try to do too much at once (open that model AND another, etc) we will get a warning that the machines are running low on VM, but as long as we work intelligently, its not an issue.


Its been said here that file size is not a direct correlation to file performance, and that is definetely true and important. Our files are big, because of a lot of documentation and drawings and schedules. There arent a lot of in place families, not a lot of group types (there are plenty of groups, but not many variations...) And we try to maximize the leveraging of families where necessary.

The worksets and the saving often is the biggie. I can work around the clock on our slowest machine, if im using my head. If im being stupid, i can crash the biggest machine here by running out of memory, and i can do it pretty easily.

As mentioned, the file doesnt dart around like when you go "File > New" in to a clean template, but theyre still very workable.

[nnguyen]

twiceroadsfool thanks for the info.
It has been trying to get people to understand that they only need to open the worksets that they need while working. they complain that yeah, if I close all the worksets, then when I need it, it takes too long (their standard on what is too long, the complainers are "power" AutoCAD users)to open the worksets. We try to tell them you either wait a little, or have Revit crash alot because of memory issues. then a whole other conversation goes into place saying Revit shouldn't crash...blah, blah, blah...oh well, you win some you lose some. cheers and beers all! have a good weekend.

[twiceroadsfool]

I give them the tough love approach. You dont want to only open certain worksets? Okay.

But then how do i make Revit not crash?

Well, it will crash. Thats why you need to play by the rules.

But it takes too long that way.

Well, how long does it take you to redo all the work three times becuase you cant save it?

...

[MTristram]

I have a question for you....

We have a project of approx 200MB in size still in 9.1, reason being we can't upgrade it to RAC2008 due to a memory issue (according to the warning message). We have managed to purge out the majority of the unused items but now have gotten to the point that if we do purge the remaining 10 items we are no longer able to STC without crashing.

Anyone got any bright ideas on how we could upgrade this file? (I am running a 6000 Dual Core processor with 3GB or RAM). I have tried opening the file in RAC2008 with only the shared levels and grids open and still get the message of not enough memory...

[dhurtubise]

Try creating a new central file and open with Audit.
What is the status of the Warnings in that project ?
Are you running Windows XP ? Is the 3GB switch enable?

[sbrown]

send it to autodesk for manual upgrade.

[MTristram]

Daniel - Thanks for the suggestions.

Tried making a new central and opening with Audit, works well till you try to STC - Revit crashes!! Number of warnings is approx 700, the team are starting to address these at the moment, and yes we are running XP, but no the 3GB switch isn't activated - trying that this afternoon.

I guess we also need to address whether this project really needs to be upgraded as it is well into Construction onsite - only this is we have an interiors project which uses this (actually a copy of) as a link and they are already in RAC2008.

[dhurtubise]

You mean that after creating a new central file and then new local file from THAT central you cant STC ?

If it's the case, send it to support

[twiceroadsfool]

Out of curiousity... And this is a pretty random out there question... Are you running 32 bit windows?

I only ask because of an interesting correlation: One of our projects thats pretty much complete, is around 240 MB. Its in 9.1, and its staying in 9.1. We wont upgrade it, because its so close to complete.

Anyway, heres the story- I have a 64 bit capable workstation, but its on standard 32 bit windows, which stinks. I got an identical workstation to play with for a day (with XP64) so i loaded RAC2008 on it to mess around and test. Then i realized the model was in 9.1, so i upgraded it on the 64 bit machine. I ran some tests, and wanted to benchmark it with my other machine, so i detached a copy, made it a central, then went to upgrade it. The machine would do it. It would fail with a crash/fatal error around 98%.

So i started the process over, at the exact same time, on both machines, at the exact same time. I even Copied new locals before doing the detach from central/upgrade, so they had EXACT similar circumstances. I shut everything else of fin the background, etc.

For whatever reason, the 64 bit machine would finish, mine would always crash at 98%. They ran exactly the same till then.

This is kind of off topic, but i found it peculiar...

[MTristram]

You mean that after creating a new central file and then new local file from THAT central you cant STC ?

If it's the case, send it to support

The work I have been doing is directly on a detached copy of the central file, just trying to problem solve. When I have created the new central file, performed a purge (or an audit) then try to save that file it crashes. I believe the User working on the actual file, has a local attached to the central, same thing happens.

A bit reluctant to send a 200MB file off to Autodesk, but it may come to that. Our local support has suggested rebuilding the file, using exported groups and importing them into a clean file.

Oh and we are running a 32 bit system

[dhurtubise]

A bit reluctant to send a 200MB file off to Autodesk, but it may come to that. Our local support has suggested rebuilding the file, using exported groups and importing them into a clean file.

They will set you up with an ftp account to upload the file. I would do it asap.