How to model a spiral????

[aretap]

So how do I model this spiral??? I am able to do it in 3ds Max and import it in to a mass family and then into my project and then add a curtain system or roof to it. However, this process is not exact an is very cumbersome due to the fact that we don't have the design completely (well not at all) tied down and are making changes on to it all the time. Is there a way to do it in revit as a massing model and then manipulate it within revit to get good sections and plans from it???? Any ideas would be great and better yet some revit genius who would be willing to give it a try would be most appreciated.
I was thinking of doing it in a floor hosted generic family and then loading it in but just don't know where to start to get a true spiral.
One more note: the truth be told we actually only need half of a spiral not a whole rotation and definitely not multiple rotations.
Thanks for anyone who can help on this one!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[dhurtubise]

Did you tried with a series or Ramp ?

[Arnel Aguel]

I guess ramp would do it. Use the same technique for spiral stairs using intermediate level then draw another one on top of it to create a 360 degrees loop or more.

BTW you actually can't bring a max model into massing in revit and turn into revit element. Max object is a mesh and revit hate mesh a lot. ;)

[eldad]

ramp is the way to do it, the guys answered while i was busy modeling :)

here is an image...

[aretap]

Actually, you CAN bring a Max spiral into a revit Mass family then load it into a revit model and attach curtain system, floor, wall or roof to it. I have done it many times!

[eldad]

Actually, you CAN bring a Max spiral into a revit Mass family then load it into a revit model and attach curtain system, floor, wall or roof to it. I have done it many times!
yes, as a DWG though...

[aretap]

Thanks for the ramp idea!!!!! Can't believe I didn't think of it.

Any ideas on how to instruct structural to attach members to it and cabling????

[aretap]

Well, yes! But is still holds true to all of its original 3d properties. I think we are agreeing on the same thing but just pointing out details!!

[aretap]

Back to the real issue at hand any ideas on the structural side??? Can beams attach to the curves in anyway or do I need to figure out the exact curve angles etc?? Please tell me it is much easier than i am thinking?!?!?

[Arnel Aguel]

Back to the real issue at hand any ideas on the structural side??? Can beams attach to the curves in anyway or do I need to figure out the exact curve angles etc?? Please tell me it is much easier than i am thinking?!?!?You can use the railing technique if you want the beam to follow the underside of the slab.

[petervanko]

Someone mentioned "inaccuracy in MAX/VIZ?" Yeah, I agree totally; those modifiers are bogus for anyone wishing to build it. I switched to Rhino and have never looked back...

[AP23]

To get make a perfect spiral you need a helix spline and a sweep or loft tool (if the spiral changes in width). For some reason, Revit doesn't have these fundamental tools, so you need to create that in any other 3d software. However, you mentioned that the design is going through an iterative process. First of all, make the spiral in an accurate 3d program like FormZ, Rhino or even something like solid works, not 3ds max or Maya. Once you have gone through all the iterations, bring it into Revit. You need to figure out if it's really necessary to bring it into Revit as your model decreases drastically in performance. Some cases it's just better to model and document a project completely out of Revit.

[awagner.135499]

I just want to know, since Revit's supposed to be more advanced for 3D modelling and the like, why doesn't it have functions like Helix, while AutoCAD has since 2007? Why are we being limited?

[Dimitri Harvalias]

, while AutoCAD has since 2007?
AutoCAD in 2007 - 25 years of development, many $$$$$ of backing
Revit in 2007 - approx 7 years in development - not so many $$$ of backing (prior to Autodesk aquisition)

I don't think Revit has ever claimed to be 'more advanced for 3D modeling'. In fact, there are far more sophisticated modelers out there. However, I would not want to use one of those 'better' modelers to create a cooordinated set of construction docs for any project.
We are all waiting patiently for these things that the Revit developers decided were not a priority for the first while.

[AP23]

People associate parametric (BIM) modelling with high end complex projects. The type of projects that would be very difficult, if not, near impossible to do in a traditional 2d package. So it's not surprising that some people are quite astonished to see that Revit can’t create some very basic geometry like, in this case, a spiral component. Autodesk promotes Revit as this tool of the future which buys you time to design. But at the same token, the whole development is focused on CD’s and coordination. Which isn’t bad, but it’s questionable if these CD driven production firms (the majority of Revit firms) really need software like Revit instead of ACA. In theory, a software like Revit would be much more suitable for contemporary architecture where you can’t predict where the design is heading, how the buildings going to look like, what affect it will have on the surroundings and the budged, instead of firms that reproduce neoclassical style buildings where you know what the outcome will be.

[sbrown]

I would bet we see some significant modeling enhancements in the next release. I've heard even autodesk employees complain about the lack of modern design tools inside of revit. I think the ability to import from other modellers was a tool to buy some time to hopefully implement some powerful revit like design tools.