Saving to Windows Server 2003 very slow

[studio3p]

We recently "upgraded" our network from a Workgroup with a Network Attached Storage device to a domain server. There have been a few configuration things that I've been able to resolve with the new server, but I am currently stumped when it comes to the time it takes to save Revit files to the server.

When working on files saved to our local drives, or when working with offline files remotely, Revit seems to work as it did before for everyone in the office. When we are working on files located on mapped network drives we are able to open files just as quickly as we were able to before (NAS), but saving takes a long, long time. I've searched the Knowledge Bases on the Autodesk, McAfee, and Microsoft websites, but have not found anything useful.

Does anyone have any suggestions what the problem might be? And more importantly, does anyone have any suggestions about how to resolve the issue? Because saving is taking so long, everyone in the office is putting off regular saves, and that means that it's just a matter of time until we lose valuable progress between saves.

My thanks -

[mlgatzke]

According to Autodesk Support, they do not recommend working on files over a network. Their recommendation is to copy to file to a local drive, work on it there, and then save it back to the network when you are finished. I have had a couple of files destroyed while working and saving over a network (twas not a pretty sight). Also, make sure that you are not saving the file to your desktop, My Documents folder, or anything else that is stored in your user profile on the Domain. This will slow down the user's login and logout as anything in these locations are copied to and from the server with every logout and login.

[studio3p]

Is that really their position? I understand that worksets are setup that way, but having locally saved files for single-user projects seems like a very bad idea. The entire of a RAID array is thrown out the window in that scenario.

[patricks]

I agree with you there. That seems like a ridiculous recommendation from AutoDesk. I would think that nearly every A/E office in the world has some sort of centralized file server, and people always open and work out of those files on the server. The file is normally moved to the local machine's memory anyway, so it's only the saving process that's going to see any difference in response time, if any, versus working and saving to the local drive.

Not to mention, saving a file to a local machine, working on it, then saving it back makes the file on the server vulnerable to changes made by others if someone else happened to open the file while you're working on your "local" copy (not a worksets project).

Now I have experienced a bit of a different scenario at my office. We also switched to Windows Server 2003 back at the beginning of the year, and also upgraded to a gigabit network throughout the office. I noticed a bit of a slowdown when saving when I began using version 9.1, and it remains the same in 2008. A worksets file seems to do okay most of the time, I guess because it's not writing the entire file each time but only the changes each person made. However, even just a 20MB non-workset project file seems to take as much as a minute to save, even across the gigabit network. It doesn't make much sense.

[studio3p]

even just a 20MB non-workset project file seems to take as much as a minute to save, even across the gigabit network.Are you noticing any issues with non-Revit files such as 20 MB Photoshop files? We have really only had an issue with Revit files.

[dhurtubise]

I've heard bad things about NAS in the past with Revit file.

[patricks]

Are you noticing any issues with non-Revit files such as 20 MB Photoshop files? We have really only had an issue with Revit files.

I think it's Revit related. On our old "server" (just a workstation that nobody used, peer-to-peer network), and 100MB/s network, saving seemed faster prior to 9.1 than it does now on an actual server and domain, gigabit network, and Revit 9.1 or 2008.

[studio3p]

The NAS certainly doesn't have the built-in safety of a dedicated domain server. That is the reason we changed our network configuration. We were using the NAS setup for nearly 2 years and we never had a problem with any of our files The save speed simply wasn't noticeable. The save speed has really only been noticeable with Windows Server 2003. Regarding Revit releases, we were using Revit 2008 with the NAS and everything was the way it was with previous releases.

[Wes Macaulay]

I think it's a Windows problem -- or a Windows and Revit problem. We've blown up large (>30Mb) unshared Revit projects on several occasions, and it's something we know can be a problem. Plus we note the slowdowns with large file writes over networks, even fast ones.

I do know there was a hotfix from MS to deal with the large file problem, but don't know if it's exclusively MS' problem... or an XP problem, or a SBS problem, or what.

[mlgatzke]

I know that this idea is counter-intuitive, but that's what I was told by Autodesk Support when I had a file destroyed. As a matter of fact, the file was SO destroyed that Autodesk couldn't repair the file and we had to go back to a backup file (tape backup) from a few days prior. In the conversation with the Support Technician, he said that there is a problem with Revit's error correction algorithm when saving over a network. I know, doesn't seem right, but that's what I was told. You asked . . .

[studio3p]

I know that this idea is counter-intuitive, but that's what I was told by Autodesk Support . . .That's what they "suggested" to me too. They haven't gone so far as to instruct me. Instead they've provided a soft suggestion. This is really absurd. I have a support request open on this issue, and I'm going to belabor the matter for as long as I can.

[mlgatzke]

I have a support request open on this issue, and I'm going to belabor the matter for as long as I can.Good luck! My issue happend about a year and a half ago and I have yet to hear, from Autodesk Support, that my issue has been closed.

[angus.110169]

I agree with you there. That seems like a ridiculous recommendation from AutoDesk. I would think that nearly every A/E office in the world has some sort of centralized file server, and people always open and work out of those files on the server. The file is normally moved to the local machine's memory anyway, so it's only the saving process that's going to see any difference in response time, if any, versus working and saving to the local drive.

Not to mention, saving a file to a local machine, working on it, then saving it back makes the file on the server vulnerable to changes made by others if someone else happened to open the file while you're working on your "local" copy (not a worksets project).

Now I have experienced a bit of a different scenario at my office. We also switched to Windows Server 2003 back at the beginning of the year, and also upgraded to a gigabit network throughout the office. I noticed a bit of a slowdown when saving when I began using version 9.1, and it remains the same in 2008. A worksets file seems to do okay most of the time, I guess because it's not writing the entire file each time but only the changes each person made. However, even just a 20MB non-workset project file seems to take as much as a minute to save, even across the gigabit network. It doesn't make much sense.

We are experiencing the same thing as well with a windows 2003 server. At the moment we are forced to save to the local directory. We have a 100mb network at the moment and I was looking to upgrade to a gigabit network switch, however from what I can see, it won't make much of a difference.
We did not seem to have problems using Revit 8.0 (however that may be my memory and the fact that we did may not have had large files back then).

Has anyone got a solution yet?

[Wes Macaulay]

Gigabit helps a lot -- switches help too. Suffice it to say that the geniuses at the Factory would have fixed this problem already if there was a ready way to do it. Database architecture is a very heady affair...

[cdatechguy]

We are experiencing the same thing as well with a windows 2003 server. At the moment we are forced to save to the local directory. We have a 100mb network at the moment and I was looking to upgrade to a gigabit network switch, however from what I can see, it won't make much of a difference.
We did not seem to have problems using Revit 8.0 (however that may be my memory and the fact that we did may not have had large files back then).

Has anyone got a solution yet?
As Wes mentioned, gigabit will help....but your lines need to be CAT5e or CAT6 to get true gigabit speeds. I am currently working on a 100mb network and unless I am trying to open a revit file from a remote server it opens rather quickly. I have some 300mb photoshop drawings that take a couple of minutes though. Other factors can be how busy is the server. Is it strictly a file server or are you trying to run other programs on it? The type of hard drives can be an issue as well. Another recommendation is to have the CAD files on a separate hard drive than the rest of the office. What kind of switch/hub are you using from the server?

[angus.110169]

Thank you for the reply.
We are a small office, 4 desks using revit. 3 other desks using word etc. Very small network demand.
The Server is a compaq proliant ml350:
2.4ghz Xeon with 512mb ram.
120gb Ultra 3 SCSI

we run a 16 port Trentnet 100mb unmanaged switch with cat 5.

The dlink G640t router acts as the DHCP server but all of the computer point to the server as the prefered DNS server.

Files tranfer fast to the server: I can copy the 30mb Revit file to the server with explorer in under 3 seconds, however opening and saving in Revit takes 3minutes plus.

I have just downloaded the new build, I will see if this makes a difference.

We have just got a quote for a new gigabit switch:
HP PROCURVE SWITCH 1800-24G - WEB MGD
24 port 10/100/1000T Web Mgd switch Lyr 2

and will be upgrading the Revit machines to have cat 5e cabling.

However I still think it is a Revit Problem.

[angus.110169]

Just a follow up on this issue.

We have installed the hardware as above.
Opening files is now very fast, however, saving is still slow. (faster than before) but it still takes about a minutes to save a 20mb file.

How long does it take you guys to save a file across a network?
Can anyone provide some file size / save time ratios?

Thank you in advance

[cphubb]

I would like to say our experience appears to be disk speed dependant. In a previous office I was using a dual proc RAID 5 disk array and our save and open times from the server were comparable to other files of similar size. Only STC seemed to take longer. We are now on a SBS server with RAID 1 and the open and save is really slow for all revit files even 35k families. Those families are slower than a 100k word document. So it would appear that the problem is both the disk access and Revit

[cdatechguy]

The dlink G640t router acts as the DHCP server but all of the computer point to the server as the prefered DNS server.

Files tranfer fast to the server: I can copy the 30mb Revit file to the server with explorer in under 3 seconds, however opening and saving in Revit takes 3minutes plus..

Having the router be the DHCP server and the Server being DNS could be an issue. I would let the server be the DHCP server and DNS and have the router's DHCP disabled and use static IP's. The gateway on the otherhad should be the router of course.

Our network we have a pdc and bdc where the bdc is our dns server. The PDC handles the DHCP only while the BDC handles DNS and WINS. To save a pretty large file from Revit (and we are using 100mb lines right now) takes maybe 10-20 seconds. If I was opening a file from our remote office then yes, that would take 3 to 5 minutes to open, and thats over a 1.5mb DSL line traveling 350 miles. So I don't think Revit is the issue here.

You may also want to setup a central/local file system even if only one or two people are working on the file to help save time with saves and opening.

[cphubb]

Our SBS is both the DNS and DHCP. So that cannot be our problem. We have Cat6 cables and 1000mb switch and the only files that are particularly slow are Revit. So slow in fact that we will often have Revit not respond and windows asks to close.

[cdatechguy]

Our SBS is both the DNS and DHCP. So that cannot be our problem. We have Cat6 cables and 1000mb switch and the only files that are particularly slow are Revit. So slow in fact that we will often have Revit not respond and windows asks to close.
Can you PM me a copy of your IPCONFIG /ALL from a DOS prompt?

An SBS network shouldn't behave like that....I was opening up large Civil3d drawings rather quickly on my old system and Revit was just as fast.

[dcretsinger]

I know this thread was started some time ago but this is an issue that has bugged me for quite some time. We have a very similar set up to many of those described here (SBS 2003 w/gig switch etc...). We are a small firm with only 4 Revit seats. Prior to around 9.1 when we saved to server it took no time at all (50 meg files in 10 seconds). After the 'upgrade' to our Revit software we all noticed that it took a very long time to save to server - in excess of 1 minute. We, like others here, just stopped saving as often. On files where we use worksets it obviously saves much faster locally and appears to even save a bit faster when 'save to central' is chosen.

So the thought that Autodesk is seriously reccommending we copy the file locally and then back to the server at the end of the day is absurd. Revit use to never have this problem and seems to be a recent infection. This is not a windows problem as the only thing in our set-up that changed was the Revit software, not the Server software. I'd love to find a work around to this. Any suggestions?

Many thanks,

[angus.110169]

I would have agree with dcretsinger.
The only conclusion I have is that Revit is the culprit. In particular the way that it writes the file to the server. I understand that it is a "database" and I presume then that it compiles it upon saving.

We can open a 50mb file in under 5 seconds from the server, however, saving the file back can take over one and a half minutes.

Adding to this problem is the fact that we are now occasionaly getting corrupted files
"file is past it's end". This is happening only to those files saved directly to the server. It does not happen to files saved locally.

So at this time we have no solution - we can just "share the pain"

[cdatechguy]

If your experiencing file corruption then you may want to switch to Central/Local file type models instead of standalone. That way you have a local copy on your computer and it saves only what needs to be updated...

As for the SBS issue....My guess is that the setup of the system has the router being the central node instead of the SBS system. The best topology for the SBS is:
WAN--> Router--> External SBS NIC / Internal SBS NIC --> Switch/Hub -->LAN
With the SBS handling the DHCP, DNS, and Gateway.