Roof at Various Plate Heights?

[Archimac]

I am having a problem drawing a roof on a house. the main roof bearing is higher than two wings on each side. When you draw a roof it only allows one plate height. If I draw three separate roofs they don't join and clean up automatically.

The image shows how it should probably look. The left wing roof is drawn at the same height as the main roof just to show how they should unify, but I want it lower. The right roof was drawn at a lower plate height and is separate.

Can anyone help?

http://forums.augi.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=2860&stc=1

[chukarov]

Did you try "Join geometry"?

[Archimac]

Problem is - how do you draw them separately since the form depends on the heirarchy of the Main roof to wings? You end up with a big valley between the two roofs.

I think you need the flexiblity in Revit to give different plate heights for chosen walls during the sketch mode. Maybe in v7:?

[Archimac]

I just tried the join roof tool and it won't select anything!

[Archimac]

Here is a 3d view of the roofs. They are drawn separately on the left wing. The should join up like the wing on the right. ( I drew the right wing at the same plate height as the main roof just to illustrate how they should join.) Except the the Main roof will ride up over the lower roof a bit.

http://forums.augi.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=2862&stc=1

[BillyGrey]

It can be done, but you need to learn to utilize the "edit" functions available after you have created the basic rectilinear roof zones (like you have it in the above pic...) In the pic I attached, I actually "pulled" my low roofs into the adoining roofs, set refrence planes to the intersections that occurred in the resulting valley's, and then edited (drew the shape) of the individual roof fills to create the unoins between the rectilinear zones.

Manipulate your perimeter roof edges, including and integrating fills/saddles, to more closely resemble a real roof... Build your roof like you build a roof. Avoid relying on total auto-creation, unless it's a cheese cake roof.

[Archimac]

Thanks BillyGrey! It is far more complicated that I had hoped. It seems as they the factory did not account for such real world complexity in regards to roofs. I'll print your response and study it and give it a go.

[mlgatzke]

If you can post the file, I'll see if I can get it to work for you. I think that the roof can be done as a single sketch, but I think a couple of your fascia lines will have to be split to allow for the plate difference.

[Wes Macaulay]

Is this more what you're looking for?

I lowered the plate height by 2' on the wing. There's a slight trick to doing this sort of thing, so I've posted the Revit file as well.

[Archimac]

I would want both wings to match! I will try to post a file or more info tomorrow.
Thanks

[beegee]

Both wings matching - like this ?

[Archimac]

Wow guys, thanks for all the help. I am attaching a modified version of Beegees roof. The problem is there are two facias. I tried cutting it back but it confused the polygon. Ultimately, there will have to be crickets in the valleys. I have no idea how to draw this roof manually even as BillyGrey suggested or how beegee drew his. We really need to be able to see the ridge lines in sketch mode to figure roofs out. Metanoias example was close but the facias would have to stop at the walls.

Thanks in Advance.

http://forums.augi.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=2880&stc=1

[sbrown]

It is much easier to build multiple roof pieces and join them together in this case, then try to do one roof.I'd make one roof out of your lower wings(continuous through the middle of your building, then using the opening tool, basically delete the middle and create a 2nd roof at the higher plate height. Granted this should be easier than it is.

[frame]

Here is example using two roofs and a roof opening cut to remove section of lower roof that intersects taller roof.

Added image to help describe how the opening is working in conjunction with the two roofs.

[Wes Macaulay]

In cases like this you may have to make the roof out of several pieces -- sometimes without having any of the sketch lines defining the slope, and using a slope arrow instead.

[CCI Design]

Dudes,
Never pick walls to draw roofs. Always sketch the lines. Do the main parts of each gable or hip and then use join roofs to hook them all together. If you ar having trouble with the heights, pull a section through them and use the move tool to put them wherever you want.

[sbrown]

I strongly disagree with the never use pick walls, I tell my trainees to always use pick walls and they should always check the extend into core box as well. Except for rare occassions when there is no wall or you need to define a roof in a way that walls don't work. On the example of the thread pick walls should be used for all exterior walls IMHO. Otherwise when you move your wall your roof is not updated which is the whole point of revit.

[christopher.zoog51272]

I strongly disagree with the never use pick walls, I tell my trainees to always use pick walls and they should always check the extend into core box as well. Except for rare occassions when there is no wall or you need to define a roof in a way that walls don't work. On the example of the thread pick walls should be used for all exterior walls IMHO. Otherwise when you move your wall your roof is not updated which is the whole point of revit.
I couldn't agree more!!! I don't know hwy that check box isn't check by default, I ALWAYS use the core to control the offset.

In my office, my users know that they're cruisin' for a brusin' if you don't use pick walls to make a roof ;)

[mlgatzke]

Dudes,
Never pick walls to draw roofs. Always sketch the lines. Do the main parts of each gable or hip and then use join roofs to hook them all together. If you ar having trouble with the heights, pull a section through them and use the move tool to put them wherever you want.
I'm with Scott and Chris. I ALWAYS use Pick Walls. It's the surest way to ensure that your overhang or rake is correctly spaced from structure (core) and that they'll move when the walls move. Why would you not want this insurance. Besides, it's a heck of allot easier too.

[Archimac]

One thing that is not a heck of a lot easy is creating roofs. In my spare time I have tried (hours) the different suggestion often not having enough detail info to know why. The only way that I have gotten to work is the example Frame suggeted. Right now I have the lower roof running under the main roof but don't know how to 'cut' it away. It is a mystery if what I have created was done correctly. Cosmetically in elevation it looks ok. But if you cut a section it would be crazy:screwy:. So much for using the section views.

If this does not improve in v7 the it will be tragic. Shall we say Achilles heel?

[christopher.zoog51272]

One thing that is not a heck of a lot easy is creating roofs. In my spare time I have tried (hours) the different suggestion often not having enough detail info to know why. The only way that I have gotten to work is the example Frame suggeted. Right now I have the lower roof running under the main roof but don't know how to 'cut' it away. It is a mystery if what I have created was done correctly. Cosmetically in elevation it looks ok. But if you cut a section it would be crazy:screwy:. So much for using the section views.

If this does not improve in v7 the it will be tragic. Shall we say Achilles heel?
use the opening tool to cut the unwanted roof away.

Remember you are new, you will learn how roofs work, it just takes practice. Revit in it's current state can model any roof.

Wether or not it simple or obvious, is up for debate.;)

-Z

[gravelin]

one important consequence of this choice : pick or sketch is how the roof is placed and articulate
In this picture : at left the linewas sketched, right it is picked

[Archimac]

Thanks czoog! I learned a new use for the opening tool. I traced the valley/ridge intersections and it seemed to work, but not sure of the best practices in the process of roof creation.

Can we get a more indepth tutorial from Autodesk Revit Support?

[adegnan]

I have to agree, ALWAYS pick walls when you can! Otherwise what good are the parametrics of Revit? If a client wants the house 4' larger, move the wall/grid/whatever and if you've locked everything together all related pieces AND THE ROOF should move! Then you can evaluate whether the change is satisfactory or not.

[Archimac]

I agree these relationships are the greatest thing about Revit, but I am finding that they are hard to manage since there are no visual clues to the relationships. We need a relationship manager!

(mod edit: Is that anything like a marriage counselor?)

[Archimac]

(mod edit: Is that anything like a marriage counselor?)
Yes, but more complex!

[adegnan]

I agree these relationships are the greatest thing about Revit, but I am finding that they are hard to manage since there are no visual clues to the relationships. We need a relationship manager!

(mod edit: Is that anything like a marriage counselor?)
Yes, for instance when there are two objects locked to a 3rd object, if you select the 3rd object and want to unlock one of the objects, there are 2 padlocks which sometimes even are on top of each other and you cannot tell which one you need to unlock to move the object!

In this case, though, I disjoin and move the 3rd object, and then align and lock it again. But that can run the risk of losing a 2nd lock that should remain.

It works but is imperfect.