Wall to Underside of Deck

[lhanyok]

How are you all dealing with walls that extend to the underside of deck? I've read through some old posts, but couldn't seem to find any that directly related to this question. I had a couple of ideas:

1. Create a new level for underside of deck and set it as the top constraint for the walls. But then I'm stuck with an extra level, and the wall and floor won't clean up properly in section views.

2. Modify the floor structure so that the structural steel layer's function is actually set to Substrate. Then when I attach the wall to the floor, it cleans up properly in section (as shown in the attachment). I can forsee problems with this solution where the floor has to clean up with exterior walls.

Any suggestions?

Thanks,
Laura

[Joef]

You can attach a wall to a reference plane if you don't want a new level.

[lhanyok]

You can attach a wall to a reference plane if you don't want a new level.

But then I still have the problem of the wall/floor join not cleaning up properly in section.

[greg.mcdowell]

i do the same thing as your second idea with the understanding that i will be replacing the "structure" of the floor with actual beams and joists at a later date (and of course changing the floor as a result)

[patricks]

I rarely ever use a floor layer to represent structure. My floors are always the decking material and floor material, so all I have to do is either attach the wall to the floor, or set the top constraint to -4" below floor level or whatever the thickness is.

[lhanyok]

i do the same thing as your second idea with the understanding that i will be replacing the "structure" of the floor with actual beams and joists at a later date (and of course changing the floor as a result)

I had no intention of creating actual beams and joists, simply because it is beyond the scope of our work. It's a 97,000 square foot building, mostly 1 story, with one 2 story wing. In my first Revit project (and only other one) I had created the floors as I did in this one, with the structural layer the depth of the trusses, and used detail components in the section views. Is it worth my time and possible repercussions of model performance to model the structure?

On a side note - we are working with a MEP consultant who will be using Revit. Will having the floor structure modeled as I have affect the way our two models work together?

[dpollard909366]

Just select the walls that you want to attach to the bottom of deck, click ATTACH on the top tool bar, and click TOP.

The walls will move with the floors if you change the levels. You can always un-connect them later if you want too.

[patricks]

Just select the walls that you want to attach to the bottom of deck, click ATTACH on the top tool bar, and click TOP.

The walls will move with the floors if you change the levels. You can always un-connect them later if you want too.

With the way his floor is modeled, the wall won't go to the deck layer of the floor if he uses the attach tool.

If the structure is steel, you can pretty easily place some open-web joists and beams in the project. I like to do it simply to make my sections look correct.

[lhanyok]

I figured I might as well take a stab at adding some joists. It only took a minute to do, but I have some concerns about this method.

First of all, as I knew it would, it increased my file size (local went from 34 megs to 37 megs). And I've only added one floor. If my project manager sees how quickly I did it, he'll want all the rest of the structure modeled. My two thoughts on this were to either use worksets to selectively open the structure, or to create a group and then link it in ( the latter sounds better to me.)

Secondly, how will this affect the MEP engineer's work, since he will be using Revit. I have the joists approximately sized, but it's not completely accurate.

Any advice?

[twiceroadsfool]

If its not in your scope, i dont see why not exclude it from the modeled floor, and simply put in tha couple of representative Joists in section with Detail components. True, its not "fully modeled," but if its not in your scope anyway, AND the consultant is using Revit, then your structure is pretty irrelevant anyway.

But yeah, when we are fully modeling structure (weve done it on a few projects) we typically put it either in a linked file, or on its own Workset.

[tmomeyer]

His floor is described as from top of slab to bottom of joist. A couple of suggestions were made, (1) to go ahead and put in the steel joists and beams or (2) leave them out (not in his scope of work) and put a couple of representative joist in sections.

As architects we routinely draw and show the steel joists in our architectural sections, so I don't see how leaving them out is realistic. The suggestion was to put a couple representative ones in the section. So, that means with no structure modeled, any Live Section cut is only going to show a floor slab of the entire thickness of slab and joist. And, then in all Live Building Sections and in Details, you would be taking additional step of adding in the joist. This doesn't seem very efficient.

We're just jumping in looking at Revit with an eye to making the switch and are looking at overall 'process' issues, and that is why I'm questioning. In another discussion, I learned that Revit Architecture doesn't model metal floor and roof deck, that that can only be done in Revit Structure (engineer puts in deck in specific directions) and if a switch (in Structure) is toggled on, then the deck will show up in Revit Architecture.

[twiceroadsfool]

As architects we routinely draw and show the steel joists in our architectural sections, so I don't see how leaving them out is realistic. The suggestion was to put a couple representative ones in the section. So, that means with no structure modeled, any Live Section cut is only going to show a floor slab of the entire thickness of slab and joist. And, then in all Live Building Sections and in Details, you would be taking additional step of adding in the joist. This doesn't seem very efficient.



Youre correct in that my way of not modeling it will not generate steel in the "live wall sections." But as for the inefficiency, a few things to consider:

Youre right, its not "ideal" to have to go in to a new wall section and drop a Detail component in. BUT, comparing the time for that, to the time to arrange the modeled Steel pieces for the entire building, all the while not getting paid for it... Well, thats your call. But updating the structure to match the sizes of the Structural engineers drawings is tedious at best, and if its not current and completely updated, its (to some degree) still irrelevant to haev modeled it.

IF you want to model a floor as the structure for simplicity, consider using two floors, as someone mentioned above. Model the floor WITHOUT the thickness of the Steel. Then copy to clipboard > Paste same place. Then change that floor to a type that is the thickness of the steel, and offset that floor down the thickness of the actual flooring. Now, you have two "floors" and can attach the walls to the top one. You still wont have Joists in Live Sections, unless you simply want a 1 line drawing denoting the thickness. Otherwise, youre still going to be putting in detail components and repeating details for the deck and stl.

But its much quicker than it seems... Thats why i would use detail components if it isnt in your scope of work...