Parameters for Walls

[Calvn_Swing]

So, I think I over-reached Revit's capabilities, which is annoying as heck!

Here's the scenario, we're using a third party tool to estimate out of Revit (Innovaya) and I'm trying to get some parameter values set up that we can link through this software to our timberline database.

We've set up shared parameters to handle things like Fire Rating, Acoustic or Rated construction, Lead Lining, Insulation, etc... All the things any one or two walls could have that aren't worth quadrupling your wall types over. Previously these things have been text parameters that you assign a standard value to. This allows us to Tag them, and edit these properties from the tag. It all works great on the architecture end of things. But, naturally, I need to use either a Yes/No parameter or an Integer parameter to link it to the database.

So, I'm thinking "no problem!" because I did the same thing with the doors a few days ago. Of course (cue the dramatic music) walls are system families, so good luck setting up a parameter with a formula in it!

So I think, maybe I can hide the calculation in a tag or a schedule? Errrrr.... So basically, I'm up a creek without a paddle here as far as I can tell. Anyone else had something similar they might have a nifty work-around for?

Thanks!

[Elmo]

Do it inside your schedule. It allows you to add custom parameters without having to fight with the walls. We have done something similar to calculate brick count, cement and sand. It fairly simple but damn it worked well for what we wanted. Just use the calculated value command inside your schedule.

[Calvn_Swing]

Elmo,

Not sure if either of us understand the other... I've made these new parameters shared parameters so I can schedule/tag them freely. The issue isn't getting these parameters into the walls, but getting them to Tag, and to export to this third party software.

The schedule solution would be great otherwise...

[Elmo]

Ahh, I see your dilemma. Stupid question here but have you tried doing this through the API.

[dpasa]

Ahh, I see your dilemma. Stupid question here but have you tried doing this through the API.

I think that the API is created for developers to make plugins and add-ons and not to turn a designer,architect,engineer or any other non-programmer, to a programmer.
Revit's API is not a simple script language, it is a programming language.
Also, the easy and fast manipulation of formulas and parameters and reports (schedules) are basic characteristics of every database. Revit is a database of walls,doors,windows etc. Don't think of Revit as a CAD software. We make drawings but Revit is by nature a database so it is bad that we cannot have full control of parameters and formulas.
There "I" in BIM as we all know, stands for Information, so this should be a primary target

[Calvn_Swing]

I'm not much of a programmer, so I haven't tried the API.

First, I'd have to learn the language
Then, I'd have to try some simple modifications
Finally, I could try this one.

Messing with the system families through the API sounds like a nice recipe for disaster for someone with such impressive programming chops as I do... (none)

I think we all know Revit is a BiM software at this point due to the many limitations in getting the i in Revit to be what we want and then to get it into other programs. I think they're working on it, but giving users more control and interaction with the database is CRITICAL in my opinion. So, we're on the same page there...

Thanks for the replies! And Elmo, if you want to try messing with the API and sending the fix to me, I'd be more than happy to thank you profusely! Unfortunately, and kind of other compensation is out of the question at the moment...

[david.kingham]

You can bring shared parameters into Visual Estimating, just have to add the parameter when generating the quantities
http://content.screencast.com/?parameters=753015ff-1765-4cbb-ac8b-39ab5985d9c0_74b6a5ca-4527-498c-873f-0a7d31b8e9c7_static_0_0_image.png

[Calvn_Swing]

I know you can bring them in, but currently Visual Estimating does not support mapping shared yes/no parameters to Timberline, nor any text parameters. So, while numeric (such as integer) parameters can map and therefore be "remembered" by the software for "auto" estimating, non-numeric parameters cannot.

Give it a shot. Add a Yes/No parameter to a Timberline database, and add a Yes/No instance parameter to a wall in Revit. Try and connect the dots, and Innovaya crashes. Boom!

I can still use them as grouping parameters for the quantities, but Auto Estimate will assign costs to them all identically despite being in different groups because the Type Name is the same and none of the mapped parameters are different.

[david.kingham]

Oh I see where you're going, I assume you've told Kevin about the limitation

[Calvn_Swing]

Oh yeah! Kevin is in China right now too - very bad timing on our part. But, as usual, he's responsive. Hopefully it is an easy fix/change...

So, what do you do with Innovaya? All VE, or are you trying out VS too? How about Design Estimating?

[Calvn_Swing]

Elmo,

if you're still watching this post, do you think this is possible using the API? (Forcing a yes/no to display something other than Yes and No?) (Or, getting those yes no values to be conditional upon the text values in the tag parameters?)

If it can be done...

[david.kingham]

We were one of the original beta testers for VE and VS a long time ago. We've had trouble finding the correct place for VE in our process (we're an integrated design/build just like Beck) I understand you have had the same struggles hence the need for DProfiler (which we're going to purchase very soon)
What point in the project are you using VE? The model needs to be so complete it's hard to use it anytime before the end of CD's.

After using NavisWorks it's hard to go back to this software, the 3d portion is just so much better in NW, if they combined forces it would be incredible.

[Calvn_Swing]

That's what I keep telling Kevin - not to combine with NW since AutoDesk just bought them out - but that the 3D navigation in Innovaya is really bad.

We're using is for estimating post D-profiler. Since we've got a bit of experience with estimating accurately off a minimal amount of geometry (Dprofiler's purpose in life) we are able to get some assemblies worked out to account for some of the missing elements at an SD and DD level. We can't get everything that way, and Timberline and OnScreen are still going to be part of the process for a while, but we've realized enough of an increase in productivity so far to more than justify the costs of the software, and I don't think we've tapped the potential yet. The biggest part is actually on my end, getting the Revit content and standards set up correctly to take advantage of the process.

I really do hope Kevin will spend some programming time vastly improving the interface though, he can't do it soon enough...