Changing instance params of objects in groups

[Wes Macaulay]

Here's one for those of us using groups:

We've got projects where the door hardware type is an instance parameter of the door. We've got doors in groups where we need to change the hardware type of a certain door in the group, but you can't, because the hardware type is an instance parameter, and you can't change all the instances at once because they're all in the different instances of the group in the project.

Ugly workaround #1: duplicate the group, make the change, swap all the old groups for the new one, and in so doing the new door data propagates to all the new instances of the new group.

We have 10 groups where we'd have to do this, and the workaround is pretty clumsy.

Anyone got a better idea?

[Rols]

I'm affraid that's about it, Wes. This has been an enormous thorn in my side for a long time now! I keep hoping with all the work the factory is currently doing with groups that it will be fixed some day.

[twiceroadsfool]

Wes-

Im confused. Its an instance parameter and you want all of the doors to change in all of the groups? Or are you saying all of the doors will have a "one off set" of hardware?

I have a group "Tenant Restroom" that has a couple of doors in it, and the HW is an instance parameter as well. Im able to edit the group, and change the doors hardware, and when i finish the group, they all update. But, to simplify this (because its a large mall) ive been driving the Hardware with a Key Schedule...

[Rols]

Wes-

Im confused. Its an instance parameter and you want all of the doors to change in all of the groups? Or are you saying all of the doors will have a "one off set" of hardware?

I have a group "Tenant Restroom" that has a couple of doors in it, and the HW is an instance parameter as well. Im able to edit the group, and change the doors hardware, and when i finish the group, they all update. But, to simplify this (because its a large mall) ive been driving the Hardware with a Key Schedule...
The problem arises when you have a door in multiple groups.
Let's stick with your restroom example. Suppose we needed seperate groups for the men's restroom and the women's restroom, yet the doors are the same. If you insert that door into both groups. When you try to edit the door, you get a message informing you that the door can only be edited in group edit mode. You can only edit one group at a time, but the door is in multiple groups...

[twiceroadsfool]

Ooooooh, now i get it. Interesting problem... In that case, i agere with the above that there needs to be some sort of delineation in the program about what can and cannot be affected while items are grouped.

I can see why it is this way... If an instance parameter drives geometry, and theyre different, the groups are inherently different. Odd though, that Mark values can be different... Maybe we (they) need to specify that Parameters of certain catagories (identity data or something) are not tied to the group function?

[Mr Spot]

I think that is really strange how tab selecting a door that is part of a group, all the instance parameters, other than the MARK, are greyed out...

Surely instance parameters should be independant of the group, or at least give us the option to choose whether they are or aren't.

Annoying.

[Rols]

I think I'll try a little experiment over the weekend...

What if I used a door family with no instance parameters? I'll create shared type parameters for everything. If these doors are in groups, they should all be typical, right?? If they're all typical, then it shouldn't matter if they're in groups???

[Rols]

Well, I'm half way there.

Replacing the instance parameters with type parameters seems to be the way to go. I can change the parameter from the schedule and the doors in 3 different groups all change.

What I need to figure out now is if there is a quick way to import these parameters into any given door family. Otherwise, I just do it one parameter at a time, one door at time and hope I only have to do it once for each door type.

[Wes Macaulay]

Another workaround I came up with: turn all the groups into links. Edit the doors in the linked file and then turn the link back into a group. Still ugly though -- and may mess up wall joins since the links don't join and you have no control over what happens when you turn them back into groups.

[Wes Macaulay]

So in our situation, the groups are for the units and are shown in a different door schedule. We've thus decided to have instance AND type versions of the parameters needed. The instance parameters are for doors not in groups, and the type versions are for the doors in the groups. The two door schedules simply show the instance or type parameters as needed.

Where we would have a problem still is if we needed to show all the doors together in one schedule; then you'd have to get creative ;-)

[Chad Smith]

I just hit this brick wall today. It seems inconsistant that the Type parameter is available, but not any others.