Keynotes - Do you like the .txt file?

[tonyisenhoff]

What are your thoughts on the external .txt file to create a keynote list?

Problem #1: More than one person can edit the .txt file at the same time with no read-only message, etc. so you can end up overwriting someone elses work.

Problem#2: You can't add any other parameters to keynotes, so you're very limited on filter/sorting.

Problem #3: Editing is a pain. Lists can get very long.

Problem #4: .txt file is not automatically reloaded in your project if you make a change. You have to jump thru a couple hoops...

Problem #5: Can only keynote model elements and detail components (not drafting lines/acad imports, etc.)

Making some noise to make this better, so please respond!!

[ford347]

I've used the keynote tool extensively since the day it was released. While I was happy they did something about the keynote tool, I do hope that some considerable improvements are made to it.

I started with the keynote file that came with Revit. I then added a lot of keynotes that I felt the file was missing to accommodate our work. This has worked, but I have found that this file is so big, it's too hard to navigate through. It's also quite painful to go through your project, come up with new keynotes and get them added to the text file where they belong as far as categories go. It just gets too big.

I then decided on this last project that I would revise the text file, it's categories, how many tiers it had etc., and make a new one. I was then going to make it a policy that this file was to act as a template file. So each project, you would start with this and you could create a special category the name of your project for all of those misc. keynotes that you would like to use for items not typically found in every job. The problem I found was that my drawing file already had 100's of items with keynotes assigned to them from the previous file and when you keynoted an item that was previously tied to the other file, even though you have pointed Revit to a diff. keynote file, it placed the keynote like nothing was wrong. So I had to either go the families list under the project browser and click the properties of each type and assign a new keynote or do it in the project. It was very painful and I am now re-thinking my strategy. It's almost like we need the ability to clear all keynote fields for a txt file change, or have one huge file that you always use, and deal with sorting through the list.

I realize the point is to get all keynotes assigned within families so this kind of thing doesn't happen, but when you are learning your own process and how you eventually like to do things with a new tool, I don't think it's that simple, especially for those of us who are small and don't employ people to keep all of those things organized.

So I'm not sure I have a great suggestion by any means, but I would like to see something more flexible and easier to manage and still work with Revit's parametric 'attitude'.

That's my two cents and my sad story:cry: :lol:

Thanks
Josh

[Scott D Davis]

Have to say ACA's keynote database is cool...MDX file format, editable on the fly, no reloading necessary.

[truevis]

I wouldn't say 'terrible' though I voted that one. It certainly could be much improved and modernized.

Any rumors about a keynote functionality upgrade coming?

[ford347]

Have to say ACA's keynote database is cool...MDX file format, editable on the fly, no reloading necessary.

What is this? Never heard of it. Anywhere I could take a look at an example? Sounds cool.

Josh

[eddy.lermytte]

I wouldn't say 'terrible' though I voted that one.
same here ... and certainly YES make this better.

[hand471037]

Have to say ACA's keynote database is cool...MDX file format, editable on the fly, no reloading necessary.

...so cool, in fact, that when Keynotes first appeared in Revit me and a friend had to say "what the HELL was the Factory thinking?!?". I mean, come on, ADT went down the same stupid road, figured out that it wasn't the right way to go, and then came out with what they have now which is pretty good after years and several releases. And now Revit goes and repeats the same mistakes...

Can y'all at Autodesk actually talk to each other a little more ;-)

[tc3dcad60731]

I like the way it is broken into the different categories. However, I find it hard to navigate sometimes from the way I think ;) AND it is hard to add notes and know that you placed it into the correct spot. I have seriously thought about reworking the entire thing to fit my needs since I do mostly residential and add the notes that I need. Then I thought maybe it would be better to start anew! Who knows and at this point most of my contractors want to see the notes with the views and not a bunch of tags that reference some note block.

I am actually going to be reworking the standard notes this week-end so that I can insert pre-typed and formatted notes and take another look at the keynotes thing too.

[TroyGates]

This is one of the few things I never understood about Revit. Revit is built upon and touted for its database structure. Then several of its tools use text files for storing data ??? Why can't these be database files just like the rest of Revit?

[rmcdonald]

I agree it needs work. We have had our own LISP based system for a long time in AutoCAD. We are trying to use Revit's keynote system and the most frustrating thing is having to close and re-open the project to update the keynotes. I think the text file is ok, simple, no special knowledge to use it. It does seem with the DB foundation of Revit that it could be better. At least have a button to reload the txt file to update keynotes.

[Scott D Davis]

I agree it needs work. We have had our own LISP based system for a long time in AutoCAD. We are trying to use Revit's keynote system and the most frustrating thing is having to close and re-open the project to update the keynotes. I think the text file is ok, simple, no special knowledge to use it. It does seem with the DB foundation of Revit that it could be better. At least have a button to reload the txt file to update keynotes.
A little trick (call it a workaround if you'd like) to NOT having to restart Revit to load keynotes. Copy the keynote TXT file, and call it something like Keynotes Reload.txt and blank it out so it has no entries.

In Revit, make a change to the 'real' keynote file and then you can load the "reload" file, then the "real' file and the notes will update.

Trick is using a fake keynote file and doing the load operation twice.

[ford347]

A little trick (call it a workaround if you'd like) to NOT having to restart Revit to load keynotes. Copy the keynote TXT file, and call it something like Keynotes Reload.txt and blank it out so it has no entries.

In Revit, make a change to the 'real' keynote file and then you can load the "reload" file, then the "real' file and the notes will update.

Trick is using a fake keynote file and doing the load operation twice.
You actually don't even need to do that. When updating your keynotes file, just open up the settings keynotes dialog box, click the browse button, select your file and hit ok. If I think about it, I don't believe you even need to select it because the file name is already typed in since it's currently there. It will now update your keynote file without having to shut Revit down or create a blank file.

Josh

[sbrown]

The keynote file though wont update the number, unless I'm missing something. I have to manually reselect the parameter for each number. Basically heres what I've got a simple exterior finish keynote system 1 - 10 number each with a note about the material. If I open the text file and decide number 1 should have been 2. It doesn't update my tags unless I manually repick the keynote from the material box.

[tonyisenhoff]

The keynote file though wont update the number, unless I'm missing something. I have to manually reselect the parameter for each number. Basically heres what I've got a simple exterior finish keynote system 1 - 10 number each with a note about the material. If I open the text file and decide number 1 should have been 2. It doesn't update my tags unless I manually repick the keynote from the material box.

This is true... We've run across this too. You can only really edit the keynote description without breaking the established numbering. If you do change the number as you stated, the keynote schedule will leave the old number blank, so at least you know that it needs to be addressed...

[sbrown]

Well I'm glad I'm not just doing something wrong. This really seems to be anti revit. manually changing keynote tags. Mine doesn't go blank the old number remains until I fix it. So its error producing in my experience.

[jcdecastro]

The new keynote vs old keynote is a catch 22. The old one can't be spell checked and the new one can't be edited "on the fly"

Are we hoping for 2008.1 with a best of both worlds keynote feature?

ps. Revit factory if you are fixing a few things and you happen to read this, can you fix the legend view back front/issue while you are at it, this one should be a simple fix.

[johnf.77896]

What ever the factory does would be better as long as they dont get rid of keynotes. They are one of the major reasons we switched from ADT. It would be nice to have the new CSI format that has the new divisions. Being able to edit it in word would be nice since, I think, the majority of people are familiar using word. To be able to use the formating tools in word would be great. One of the best things is you can have your template set up so that the keynote legend is already on a sheet so when you add your keynotes they automatically show up on your sheet. way cool.

John Fleming
GMK Architecture, inc.
www.gmkarch.com

[tonyisenhoff]

Well I'm glad I'm not just doing something wrong. This really seems to be anti revit. manually changing keynote tags. Mine doesn't go blank the old number remains until I fix it. So its error producing in my experience.

I was a bit wrong...

In the Keynote schedule, the description is what get blanked out when you change a keynote number in the text file... The incorrect number still shows in all views as you stated...

So, the "schedule's description" is your key (no pun intented) to see if the number has been modified in the text file... I guess the good thing is that you can select the keynote number from within the schedule and reselect the "correct" keynote. This will update the tag everywhere in the model.

Clear as mud?

See image and the highlighted yellow part.

[sbrown]

Thats a great tip Tony. Thanks.

[Anthony.d]

Why can't we link all our keynotes to our materials and elements?

[ford347]

Why can't we link all our keynotes to our materials and elements?

As long as I'm understanding you, you can. You can link keynotes to elements and to materials. For materials, pull up the material editor from the settings menu, then select a material, then click the identity tab and you can assign a keynote from there. Then when referencing the keynote in your drawing, select the keynote by material tool, hover over an item in projection or section and you will be able to keynote that elements material.

Josh

[jtobin.68416]

I think the most obvious problem with the current keynote workflow is that you are to assume that you have all the keynotes you will need for your project in advance!
Under this assumption, as you develop your design, you simply pluck the pre-ordained keynote from your master list and assign it to the appropriate elements in your project.

My real-world workflow is entirely different (given the diversity of projects we usually deal with.)
In the real world we start a project and compose many keynotes as we need them, we then want to update them as we are looking at the situation on-screen, so having an external txt file is a real wrench in the workflow.

I really want to use keynotes - I think it's a breakthrough, but not with this workflow assumption. (BTW, I also second the idea of adding custom parameters, so can add qualifiers to your keynotes.)

[tomnewsom]

The current implementation is completely broken, IMO. I refuse to use it until it has a sensible workflow and interface, built round the revit databse just like everything else.

[nancy.mcclure]

Given the external .txt situation, I'd like the ability to link to more than one .txt file, so I can separate out my reference data, and also leverage the 'by sheet' aspect to manipulate a master notes file, for example.