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View Full Version : List of problems after my first big work with Revit



overcaffeined1745
2003-07-12, 10:40 AM
I'm very new to Revit (began using it last March). I've recently completed my first relatively "big" work with it. The project is not finished yet, but it has already arrived to an stage complex enough so that I had to use a substantial % of the functionality in Revit.

During the work, I was writing a list with all problems I found. I just thought that some other forum members could be interested in reading this list of problems, so I decided to post it. Perhaps some people might like to know what kind of problems a newbie can find when doing the first big stuff with Revit.

The project consists in several residential multistorey buildings, summing a total of 170 apartments. These apartments were modelled as groups for convenience.

NOTE: Several of the items in the list are caused by the fact that I don't want to use detailing tools until the project arrives to a more advanced phase. I choose Revit for working 100% in 3D with a virtual building model. I agree that some stuff must be 2D, but it was my choice to not use the Revit 2D tools for fixing 3D bugs or problems. I want to use 2D for 2D, not for patching problems.


The list:
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-Doors appear in sections in which they shouldn't if the section line is relatively near the door. This forced me to discard some sections and choose less interesting sections instead.

-Some wall joins don't clear at all, or clear partially. There's no apparent reason for this, because if you make an array of a group that has walls, the same walls when meeting at the same angle may clear or not on each group instance.

-In order to successfully wrap layers of exterior walls, I had to define a "false core". Some structural layers had to be put outside of the core so that they correctly closed air/thermal layers at windows and doors.

-The walls wrapping line at openings appears in sections. I have some openings that require wrapping but have no window, so the wrapping line is quite annoying in sections.

-The "join geometry" tool may fail to clear the common line of two floors which are on the same level and have a side in common, even if both floors have the same material. It sometimes works, sometimes not. Also, it may clear in plan but not in section.

-The common edge of two joined walls can sometimes be visible in hidden line 3D views even if it's correctly cleared in all plans, sections, elevations, etc.

-Because of a bug that caused the elevation parameter of some families to grow when they're included in groups, it was impossible for me to insert groups in levels other than level 1. Since I used groups for apartments, I had to create two files: One with all apartments on level 1 only (for detail views of the apartments). And other file with no apartments at all, just exterior walls (for perspectives and general sections).

-Structural columns lost the concrete pattern in one of my buildings (I checked all visibility and materials settings, but no way).

-When an structural column is partially embedded in a wall, the separation line between them is drawn as a projection line instead of cut line (I guess this is because I used the "join geometry" tool to join them, but I was forced to do so, because otherwise the wall could obscure the column in some views.

-Structural columns needed to be manually joined with floors in order to be drawn as cut lines in plan views. Otherwise, they showed as projection lines and projection fill pattern.

-If the drawing is very complex, snapping may fail to detect some lines. It behaves like if snapping said "I can just process up to 500 lines - I'll ignore the rest". This problem doesn't happen in simpler views.

-Monolithic stairs (created following the Autodesk Tutorial) have unwanted lines in sections (specially the line which divides the landing and the run - it should be a continuous concrete element, so the line shouldn't exist).

-Balusters appear "flying" above the treads in monolithic stairs (they try to be on the stringer, but the stringer is "open", so they appear to "fly").

-Suddenly, all walls, ceilings and ceiling lamps disappeared from one of the RCP views. I re-applied the same view template as to the rest of RCP views, but it didn't fix it. It was the only RCP view with this problem (fortunately I had already printed it!). It's strange, because I didn't touch such RCP view since the time when I printed it, so it's quite unlikely that I modified any of its settings.

beegee
2003-07-13, 07:44 AM
NOTE: Several of the items in the list are caused by the fact that I don't want to use detailing tools until the project arrives to a more advanced phase. I choose Revit for working 100% in 3D with a virtual building model. I agree that some stuff must be 2D, but it was my choice to not use the Revit 2D tools for fixing 3D bugs or problems. I want to use 2D for 2D, not for patching problems.

I don't follow your logic in not using detailing tools (such as the "linework" tool and "edit cut profile" ) which would immediately overcome many of the "problems" you have listed.

Your project sounds as though it is in an advanced stage and even if it isn't, why not use all the available tools that Revit provides? How would that compromise the documentation? Plans and sections are by their very nature 2D representations of a 3D entity, so using 2D tools seems appropriate. Wall joins, wall wrap layers, floor joins, column projections, column cuts ... all fall into this category.

There are items on your list that certainly do need attention by the programmers. Doors showing in section when the section line cuts the door swing is one such case. Personally, I've always found it fairly easy to move the section line slightly to miss the swing, but I do understand that this may not be possible in all cases.

Groups are also known to be "buggy" in some situations. There are ways to handle this though. There are threads in this forum that tackle the problem.

I'm not trying to make light of the frustrations you have found. Just saying that sure there are some things need fixing, but, compared with other software, not that much really :)

beegee

sbrown
2003-07-14, 01:20 PM
Thank you for taking the time to share these. I hope you have submitted your data to revit with this list for them to work on your finds. Many of them as BG stated are known, groups just plain don't really work, we have found they cause more headache and problem, then just recreating each plan, zoog may disagree but he has had to create a very limited system inorder to use groups effectively. this is POOOR in my opinion and in Revits, I think it is on top of the list along with stairs. both of which are huge problems in revit.

as for not using the drafting tools, I understand your motivation and actually think it will go a long way in your training. we have the opposite problem in our office, people don't even try to model something properly they just draft it, causing huge problems later. I applaude your efforts. however at the cd phase the drafting tools are a must.

as for your RCP, click properties, and check the view range, change it all to unlimited and see if that helps or is there anychance a floor or roof or solid of some sort got inserted below the ceiling of that view?

JamesVan
2003-08-03, 04:18 PM
-Suddenly, all walls, ceilings and ceiling lamps disappeared from one of the RCP views. I re-applied the same view template as to the rest of RCP views, but it didn't fix it. It was the only RCP view with this problem (fortunately I had already printed it!). It's strange, because I didn't touch such RCP view since the time when I printed it, so it's quite unlikely that I modified any of its settings.

I am suddenly having the same problem with my ceiling plans. I'm using the Residential template, and there are no walls in ANY of my RCP's. The only way to get anything to display is to change the Top of the Primary Range to Unlimited, but then it shows EVERYTHING. Is anyone else having this problem or found a workaround? Any help would be appreciated!!

Vincent Valentijn
2003-08-06, 08:39 AM
overcaffeined,
Your list sounds very familiar, I also rule out the draftingtools [in first instance]. Simply because I want to optimise my models instead of making mock-ups (I would use oldfashiones CAD if I want to be drawing lines and stuff, right?) Most of the problems you found are probably in process by Revit I guess, since I've heard similar complaints from lots of users. -I for one subscribe your list :)
oh and James.. still haven't found the golden Wonkabar, I'll let you know when I do :wink:

JamesVan
2003-08-06, 01:01 PM
Good observation, Vincent. Now if you can name the character depicted in my avatar, that would really be impressive!

gregcashen
2003-08-06, 05:59 PM
Gus Gnu...(I think)

No Gnews is good Gnews.

JamesVan
2003-08-07, 03:30 PM
Wow! Good guess. It's Gary Gnu, you've got the quote down though! :lol: From my childhood TV era, the Great Space Coaster (http://www.geocities.com/Hollywood/Theater/9266/tgscmain.htm).

gregcashen
2003-08-07, 07:11 PM
Arrgh. Gary Gnu. I should have gnown! I used to love that show.

gregcashen
2004-02-04, 04:03 AM
This is the problem with letting us change the avatars. Read this thread now, and we look like idiots :screwy:

beegee
2004-02-04, 04:16 AM
Don't Look Back, Greg .

gregcashen
2004-02-04, 04:29 AM
You got it, Bugs. :wink:

beegee
2004-02-04, 04:43 AM
No worries, Freerange Monkey.