Wall Ends

[rdaniel]

I'm trying to adjust the end wrapping condition of a wall. Right now, when I set the end wrapping condition to exterior, the exterior finish wraps all the way to the interior face. I want to adjust this so that the exterior material only wraps back to the face of the core boundary. Ex. I have a CMU + brick veneer wall and want the brick to return to the "exterior" face of the CMU. Any ideas?

[chodosh]

Can you post an screenshot of what you're seeing? Thanks, LC

[rdaniel]

Something like this.

[jcoe]

It seems to work ok here.

Make sure you watch out for the "wrapping" column when you create your wall style. If this is unchecked and you ask the wall to wrap at inserts, you will not get the result you are looking for.

From my understanding, when you are wrapping at inserts, "Exterior" or "Interior" refers to that entire side of the core boundary. If you need to control the wrapping of each wall layer outside the core bondary, you will need to manipulate them individually by making the necessary adjustments to the "wrapping" column when you create your wall style.

[rdaniel]

Is the door and storefront inserted into the wall or am I looking at the end of one wall and the beginning of another? I guess that's what I'm having trouble with. The veneer returns fine (I actually want it to stop at the insul.) at openings, but not at the wall end - whether I have the component checked to wrap or not.

[jcoe]

The door and sidelite is actually a single family inserted into the wall.

Storefronts - even if they are embedded - do not behave as inserts and therefore you will not get any wrapping condition. I usually handle this with some kind of jamb detail.

As far as the end condition, I believe the attached image is what you are referring to. I do not believe we have control over this condition. I have tried several methods and combinations of wraping, layer priorities and adjustments to the core boundary. I have even tried edit cut profile and still cannot seem to graphically show what I want. If there is a method someone has to offer, I'd love to here about it. This too has botherd me for some time.

[rdaniel]

Well, thanks for the response nonetheless. I'm curious, is the sidelite a wall inside the door family? Are you inserting the whole thing as a single door object? I'm still pretty new to the software and trying to figure out the best way to do everything.

[jcoe]

My doors are made up of a series of nested familes. I have frame assemblies (some with sidelites and some without), door panel assemblies and plan swings. I take combinations of all three and place them into an opening and create a single door family. This is an oversimplification of course. There are many steps involved, but thats the jist of it.

I got this method from this forum. I think it was and ATP by Aaron Rumple? that got me started.

[Calvn_Swing]

Guys, at inserts (doors, windows, etc...) you have some options that you don't have at ends. In the wall type properties you can control the "wrapping" for both. I usually leave the Inserts to "Do Not Wrap" as I usually specify this behaviour in the doors, windows, etc... In these families, you can pick a reference plane that is parallel to the wall and set it to define wall wrapping and thus, by dimensioning the reference plane with a parameter, control it however you please. With the ends, you're SOL.

Or are you...

We rarely have this kind of condition. Usually, we want our finish to wrap over our core just like Revit defaults to. In those rare cases you have two sneaky options...

1. Make a Brick Veneer wall type and a core wall type (which we've already got set up for other reasons) and model them as individual walls. You can now make it wrap exactly how you want.

2. Make a Brick Return wall sweep, make it the correct dimensions for your condition, and the same material as the wall. Change your object styles settings for the subcategory to match your walls settings. Now you can join the sweep and the wall and you've basically got the same thing accomplished.

Have fun!

[rdaniel]

In these families, you can pick a reference plane that is parallel to the wall and set it to define wall wrapping and thus, by dimensioning the reference plane with a parameter, control it however you please.

Calvin can you post an example of this and show how you control this?

Thanks.

[Calvn_Swing]

It is pretty well documented in the Revit help file actually... Search for "Wall Closure"

To be more specific, edit any door family, window family, etc.. Select a reference plane, or draw a new one, and go to its properties. You'll see a little check box for wall closure. Now, you can place that reference plane anywhere in the family using any means you would usually use to control the location of a reference plane in a family. Usually, I dimension from the face of the exterior side of the wall, then label it with an Exterior Finish Return parameter.

Now, in the Family Types dialog, set the wall closure to By Host, Exterior, etc...

If you pick "Exterior", it will look for any wall layers on the exterior side outside of the core that are set to wrap in the wall type structure properties. If you pick, "By Host" it will default to the wall wrap settings in the wall type properties. I prefer the former since Wall wrapping at ends/inserts is usually more like an instance parameter in practice. Rarely does it match with a wall type, and I refuse to make modeling more cumbersome by having multiple wall types for wrapping conditions. Complete BS on that idea.

[rdaniel]

I found this post after I wrote the last one. I forgot that you can specify a ref. plane as the closure plane.

http://forums.augi.com/showthread.php?t=62735&highlight=door+wall+wrap

Thanks again. :beer:

[Calvn_Swing]

rdaniel, I like to keep everything BUT the most private of conversations on the forums so it's out there for general discussion. As such:


Calvin,

How do you like to handle alum. framing systems (storefront)? Do you use a curtain wall and insert a door inside the system? If you don't mind sharing a file, that would be much appreciated.


We're a design-build company. So, we do quite a few things differently than "common wisdom" on the forums. So, you have to take what I say with a big grain of salt...

For instance, with your wall ends we don't usually have that problem. We like to model our stud backup (or CMU, etc...) as one wall and the Brick veneer as a separate wall. Why? Because it is easier to schedule and cost that way.

So, my answer to your questions is: Who's installing it? In most cases, and extruded aluminum system is going to be installed by a storefront/curtainwall sub. As are aluminum strip windows, etc... Meanwhile, Hollow metal frames (and aluminum knockdown frames) are going to be installed by your sheetrock crew, your panels will be hung by someone else, and then your hardware will be installed by someone else! And if there's glazing that doesn't come pre-installed, guess who's doing that? Your storefront/curtainwall sub usually. Of course, it gets a bit convoluted when you include solid wood doors in a curtainwall system as these can be installed by the same guy that does the other panel installs... So, no solution is perfect.

For now, our solution is to model anything being done by our storefront/curtainwall sub as a storefront/curtainwall; and anything else as a door or a window.

I don't really have an example file small enough to post that's already "done" and I don't really have the time to make one from scratch. Then again, I don't think the "theory" is all that complex. The practice can be though. I'll keep an eye out the next few days if anything crosses my path that I think illustrates the point effectively, and I'll post it if so.

Good luck!