Just can't make ANY blocks dissapear at undefined scales!

[vmx12]

Can anyone provide me with a clue as to how you make annotative blocks disappear at an undefined scale like annotative text does?

I've created a block that scales perfectly at the DEFINED scales, but when I switch to any undefined scale, it just reverts back to it's original creation scale. I already know all about setting ANNOALLVISIBLE=0 and ANNOAUTOSCALE=-4, but that doesn't change my problem. I've tried on 3 different installs of Autocad, all act just alike....

Can anyone post an example of a block that you KNOW disappears at undefined scales? I have yet to see it work....it would help with my sanity to see one actually work like it's supposed to! Thanks for any help.

I've attached an example of what I'm having trouble with, maybe someone can find what is wrong? I just want the block to dissapear when it ISN'T set to 1/4 or 1/8 scales! Right now, it just gets really small, but it's still there!

[mockdeep]

You have 4 annotative scales set up within this block. If you go to Annotative Scale under properties and click the "..." you will see the scales that the block currently appears at. Just add and delete scales as you like. Here is the block with just the two scales you wanted:

[vmx12]

Thanks for the effort, I really appreciate it, but it still doesn't make the block DISSAPPEAR at undefined scales like annotative text works. On my end anyway, your block ends up working just like the one I posted. Works right for all defined scales, AND still appears in the undefined scales. The search for a fix or an example of a 'properly' dissappearing block goes on....this is killing me! I can't be the only the person with this problem, I have 3 different installs of Autocad 2008 that all do exactly this same thing in our office, it isn't just one machine. It's gotta be a setting or something if others have this working. Help! Anybody!

[mockdeep]

Ok, the block works for me at the appropriate scales and disappears as expected at any other scale. So my next guess is that you have set the Standard Scale, but not the Annotative Scale for your viewports. I have had some frustration with this, trying to understand why the two should be separate.

When you select a viewport, at the bottom of your screen you should see an icon for VP Scale. If you use this to choose the scale for the viewport it will set both of them together, as opposed to the old Viewport Scale Control, which only changes the Standard Scale and leaves the Annotative Scale as it is.

If you don't see Viewport Scale on the bar at the bottom of your screen then, with a viewport selected, you can click on the little arrow at the far bottom right of your screen and select "Viewport Scale" from the list.

If this doesn't work, could you please post a drawing demonstrating your problem with the viewports?

[CADDmanVA]

Ok, the block works for me at the appropriate scales and disappears as expected at any other scale. So my next guess is that you have set the Standard Scale, but not the Annotative Scale for your viewports. I have had some frustration with this, trying to understand why the two should be separate...

The thought behind this is for a rare, but dire circumstance. Say you want your Annotative Objects to appear at one scale (let's say 1" = 10'), but you want the Viewport Scale to be another scale (like 1" = 30'), without affecting the size of whatever Annotative Objects are visible. What you would do is set the Annotative Scale, then use a ZOOM to change the Viewport Scale. Strange sounding, but I actually do that about twice a week when trying to layout larger sheets.

[vmx12]

OK, I see where you're going with the viewport thing, and I've used that on several occasions successfully with annotext, and it works fine for blocks as long as the current scale is what I want to plot. If I set it there to a different scale with the intention of hiding text and/or blocks, the text works perfect and the blocks still hang around!

Let's keep this on a simpler level. I'd just be happy to see it work in model space just like annotext does! If I can make it happen there, I'm sure I can translate that into paperspace viewports.

I am attaching a DWG, and a couple of screenshots of what is going on. Again, the blocks and text all work perfect at defined scales; and text works perfect (by disappearing) at undefined scales. It's the darn blocks that won't dissappear.

I see that feature being so useful, but only if blocks work too! I'm still hoping it's just a setting or something, or a variable somehow that I can't find in documentation. Thanks again to all for helping.

[mockdeep]

I'm stumped. This drawing works just fine for me. When CANNOSCALE is set to 1/8" or 1/4" the block is there and scaled appropriately and the text changes. When I have the Anno Scale set to 1/2" the block disappears and the text changes again. From your photos I can see that this is not the case for you. My ANNOAUTOSCALE is set to -4 like you and ANNOALLVISIBLE is 0. I would suspect some system variable but these are the only two I know of that might affect this and the help files offer nothing else. I thought maybe REGEN would have an effect, but I don't think so anymore, and you've probably already tried that anyway.

From this behavior I would assume it acts this way with all annotative blocks, am I right? Do you have any verticals or add-on programs on your machines? I'm nudging closer and closer to just saying your best option is a complete uninstall / reinstall of AutoCAD.

[vmx12]

Well, maybe that's it then. I don't really have any addons, but I am running Civil 3D 2008 if you call that an addon. I'm stumped on this, I've literally spent hours trying to find a hidden system variable or something like that to fix this, to no avail.

I've already tried the whole reload thing (actually did a whole OS and all reload just a month or so ago). Thing is, I have 3 other systems in the office (all on C3D also) that do exactly the same thing. I'm starting to think this must be a C3D fault of some kind.

It sounds like for everybody else even MY block works, but it won't work for me! I'm going to try and find some help through my reseller and see if they can find something for me to try. Thanks again for your efforts.

[mockdeep]

I have heard some about things not behaving as expected in vertical applications like Civil 3D, though I'm not to familiar with those issues. One last thing is to make sure you have all of the service packs installed. Aside from that, I'm all dried up. Maybe someone else will have an idea. Sorry I couldn't do more.

[vmx12]

Unfortunately that was the first thing I checked, assuming it was a bug in C3D. I'm going to go the tech support route and try and find an answer. I'll post if I find out anything useful.

BTW, were you using just straight "vanilla" AutoCAD when you got it to work?

Thanks again for your time and efforts.

[mockdeep]

Yeah, we use vanilla in our office.

[CADDmanVA]

Yeah, we use vanilla in our office.

Us too. I don't remember any other C3D folks having this problem though. weird...

[DBill2508]

I downloaded this block and took a look at it myself. We run Land Desktop Companion 2008.
Now I am not very familiar with using the annotative properties, but I opened the file and set the annotative scale to 1/8" = 1' and 1/4" = 1' and the block worked as explained. I then changed the scale to 1/2" = 1' and everything scaled properly.

So then selected the block in question and removed the 1/2" scale and the block did not disappear. It reverted back to it's 1/8" scale but was still visible.

Hope this helps your sanity. You are not the only one this is happening to.

[vmx12]

Just received a 'preliminary' response from my Avatech customer support technician. After explaining everything we've spoke about here in great detail, they agree that
they cannot get Civil 3D to do it either! Which kinda makes me feel better, now I know I'm not going crazy! They said they are going to Autodesk with it, we'll see if anything happens there. Maybe now that they know it will make the next service pack or something!

[bruce.adams]

This was indeed a bug and has been fixed in the latest build of C3D 2009 beta.

Bruce Adams
AEC Civil QA
Autodesk