Working with Abstracts

[stusic]

Okay, I've decided to make a scene using everything that I can't quite get. I have trouble with abstract things like water, clouds, fog -- things that aren't based off of primitive shapes.

What I've done is created an ocean scene at night. I still need to add a fog effect (of some sort), but the basics of what I'm having trouble with are all here.

Some problems I'm seeing and don't really know how to fix:

1. Horizon. It doesn't look quite right. There's no "fading to infinity". I'm not sure whether I need to move the lights to make the horizon darker (and thus, less noticeable) or add fog to the edge to blur the too-defined horizon line or what.

2. Clouds. I dunno how to get them wispy. As some of you might already know, I stink at clouds. I've been fighting with them for a while now.

3. Water. I know I need to make the blue a bit deeper, but dellis' shoreline section was sweet. I like how it was translucent; not opaque, but not clear. Like you could see a foot or two into it...

4. Lighting. These lights are just some I threw in to get the idea of what I'm going for. It's something I can tweak later.

Any critiques are welcome, as long as they come with some suggestions in working with them. :)

Thanks for any help all!

[Steve_Bennett]

I use "other" programs for environments. namely bryce and recently played with VUE 6 xTreme.

That being said, I would love to pick up my skills in MAX for the same.

In your image, I see you added a light with a lens flare - nice touch.

Did you try creating a daylight system and have it generate haze? I know there are haze settings in the regular environment dialog too.

[dellis]

This isexactly what i've been doing all of my years in 3d....i force myself to do a scene which consists of the things i suck at or have a really hard time with! Its a really good way to learn, so keep at it. Having said that, here are my suggestions:

1. Horizon- The problem, at the heart of it, is about trying to convey a sense of depth. Try and model as much of the physical distance into the actual scene as you can. You don't have to have very much geometric detail way out there but the further out your water geometry goes the better it will be. You can localize your geometry resolution so that it is higher closest to the camera and have it only consist of a few polys way out at the horizon. Theres a couple ways you can help the sense of depth problem.

-Use a fog effect and adjust the near and far ranges. Keep them both really low, remember that you are using the fog to help with ditance..not to actually display the fog.
-You can also use depth of field, which is a good thing, expensive for rendering but is closer to whats happening in real life.

2. Clouds- Use volume fog and don;t be afraid to use more then one gizmo and setup. Try and setup one volume with large noise values to get that large flowing billowy effect. Then set up another for smaller details in the clouds. If you space them such that you are overlapping some and then have some far away from eachother, it will help with the horizon problem as well. Be mindful of the density values...i'm thinking that is what is getting you the blown out whites. You could also use a particle system to build your clouds. Using a good shader setup per particle would allow you to roughly model a cloud and then fill up that model with the particles. You could alos paint them up in photoshop and use the opacity mapped/billboard effect.

3. Water is always a pain. Always try to consider whats going on in the real world for guidence. Reflection/refraction is so much of what makes water look good. Experiment with falloff maps in the reflection/refraction slots. Set them up with a Fresnel falloff and what ever methode you are using for refelection in the white slot. I can clarify this later if you need specific help. Surface waves and ripples are another big thing with nailing water.I think you are okay in that department....once you get the reflection/refraction going what you have will start looking really good.

4. Lights- Night time lighting is always hard too. I would put in a night sky for the background. Either faint stars or a pretty dark sky well after sunset. Typically moon light is slightly blu-ish so keep that in mind as well as the fact that moon light is rarely extremely bright. I would start with a direct light shooting from the moon with a low multiplier and start adding more lights as is needed...most of which should be localized in the foreground. Typically i would say that the lighting should get more dim as you travel into the image.

Keep at it though...this is a great approach!

[dellis]

Almost forgot....if you are using a map for the water surface...as far as the waves go...nest it in a falloff map with the falloff type set to towards and away. The human eye wouldn't be able to distinguish the same surface detail in the foreground as would be in the background. Only rendering engines can do that.:)