Existing to New Phasing?

[MNsnowtaTy]

I've searched a lot on phasing threads here, but none seemed to answer my question or I just didn't quite understand them. My problem is I am working on an existing floor plan and the remodelling of the same floor plan. I copied the walls from the existing plan view to the new plan view and I want to edit it the new walls that were drawn in Auto CAD, but if I try to get rid of a existing wall or door that is no longer on the new plan then it deletes it on the existing plan as well.

I imported the CAD link of the new changes to properly place things in the right spot on the new plan view. What do I need to do so that when I get rid of a wall in the new plan view it stays in the existing plan view?

[c-hawk]

copying elements between phases isn't really how it works. have you reviewed the help/tutorials on phasing? essentially, objects have phasing parameters to denote when they were created and demolished. These parameters, coupled with views' phasing view properties are used to display the difference between phases.

[DaveP]

Welcome to Phase 2 (pun intended) of understanding Revit.
Phasing does take a while to get used to. Just remember your Revit mantra "Everything is only in the database once". When you said "I copied the walls from the existing plan" - that's your mistake. You don't want to copy the wall. You wouldn't build it twice, right?

What you want to do is set up two Views (actually, it's probably three, but we'll talk about that later). Set up one View & call it "1st Floor Existing" Then rename the other one to "1st Floor New". Note that they show the same thing. Now go into the "Existing" View and it's View Properties. Change it's Phase to Existing and its Phase filter to "New". In the "New" View, change its Phase to "New Construction" and its Phase Filter to "Show Previous + New".

Oops, everything disappeared, didn't it? That's because you are now back in time looking at your building as it was before - say 1993 just for fun. When you drew those walls, they were considered "New". Problem was, you drew them in 2007. They didn't exist in 1993. So you need to go back to your "New" View, select all the "Existing" walls and change their Phase Property to "Existing". What you've just done is tell Revit that those walls were built in 1993. Notice that they now show up in the "Existing" View.

So, now your walls exist in both the past and the present. But you wanted them Demo'd - in 2007. Go up to the Toolbar and pick the little hammer. Start smashing the walls and they should disappear. Make sure you are Demolishing them in the New View - it matters in which View you demolish them because, remember, "Existing" is looking at 1993 and New is looking at 2007. If you Demolished them in 1993

There are a couple of other twists on this whole scenario. I mentioned three Views before. You'll probably also want a "Demo" View. In Revit, you're typically going to work in the Existing and New Views, but your going to want to PRINT from Demo and New Views. Create a Demo View and set it's Phase to New and its Phase Filter to Show Previous + Demo. In this view, your Demolished Walls should show as dashed. The way the display depends on yet another setting. Under the Settings...Phases menu, go into the Graphics Overrides Tab. The Demolished Line Pattern should be listed as Demolished (or maybe dashed). You might also want to look at the Material for Existing, We've got ours set to Phase-Exist, which makes our Existing walls come in solid filled grey.

Hope this helps & remember to party like its 1993 !!

[MNsnowtaTy]

Thanks for the help, it makes much more sense now.

[patricks]

I think for a demolition plan you would want to have the phase set to New, and the filter set to Show Previous + Demo. If you show new and demo, then nothing existing to remain will show. A demo plan shows only existing elements - what stays and what goes. So the phase filter for the demo plan should show previous + demo.

As for views, I always keep an Existing Plan view just as a working view. We usually don't show what is existing by itself. Set the phase to Existing and set the filter to Show New, or Show Previous + New. That way the view will display the existing building as if it were newly built, and all objects created in that view will go on the Existing phase. Then when you look at it in a New Construction or Demo plan, they will show as existing (usually gray scale depending on how you prefer to set the graphic overrides).

Also, do not create a separate phase just for Demo. When you start construction on a new building addition, there isn't really a separate phase for demolition in real life. What gets demolished happens as part of the new construction project. So stick to just Existing and New Construction phases (unless construction is actually spread out over several phases), and just change the Phase Demolished of existing elements to New Construction

[DaveP]

Thanks for catching me, Pat. :Oops:
I've edited my post to include your correction.

[nancy.mcclure]

...do not create a separate phase just for Demo. When you start construction on a new building addition, there isn't really a separate phase for demolition in real life. What gets demolished happens as part of the new construction project.

I have to disagree with Patricks - in my experience working with property management clients, there are definately times when Demo is its own independant phase (sometimes its own independant project). The beauty of Revit's Phasing tools is that it allows the designer and the management team to devise their own methodology, and having worked in construction management, I'd take full advantage of that. While a permit set of drawings might only need to break down into Existing and New Construction, as a project manager, you could break work down in phases that address team-specific work, or by material delivery bundles. Phasing is an amazingly flexible tool that I believe has only begun to be tapped into.

That said, it's sometimes nice to keep it simple, right?

[dgreen.49364]

Not to pile on, but I cast another vote for the Demo phase. We work on large projects and having a separate Demo phase helps a lot, IMO. It depends are what the final product is going to be, but we normally have separate sheets for demolition only, so the separate Demo phase works well in that situation. We had a public works project where we had demolition and three additive alternates that would have been taken in a real world timeline, so that particular project had 6 phases. Existing, Demolition, New Construction, Add. Alt 1, Add. Alt 2 and Add. Alt 3.

Sounds crazy, but the way the demo and additive alternates were laid out, we pretty much had to do it that way. And it worked really well.

[patricks]

Well sure if you have many multiple phases then that might be beneficial, but for most projects where there is existing work and you're adding on new work, there is no need for a separate Demolition phase.

But I'm curious, what do you have to show that you need a separate Demo phase that you couldn't show by just setting the view to phase New Construction, and filter Show Previous + Demo? That would show only existing and demolished elements. Are there actually some new elements being placed on your Demo phase, like patchwork performed where things like walls are torn out?

We usually include the patchwork stuff as part of the new construction, but if it were more like renovation work, I would probably have a Renovation phase (demolition and renovations to existing construction) and then a New Construction phase (any building additions). That way there wouldn't be any confusion between a Demolition "phase" and the demolition phase filter.

[SCShell]

Hey there,

Phasing is one Revit's coolest features I think. I love having that much control over what is showing on the screen.

My favorite phase override:
"Show Complete + Demo"

I use this a lot when remodeling projects. It helps when I am designing, and when I want to place a "Coordination Plan" or "Scope of Work" type plan in the set. It helps everyone to be able to see how the Demo and New Construction all relate to each other.

That is my two cents.
Steve

[MNsnowtaTy]

So another question then.

When I show something as being existing and I'm making something as new construction that will be placed over only a partial bit of the wall, what do I do to have the existing wall to show with the new wall? But yet, not have the existing wall showing where the new wall is?

Or is that the beauty of it, is that I don't need to show the existing walls where the meet with the new walls because that new construction is shown with the greyed out existing construction?

But then what about 3D view, can I get it to show the new construction with the existing construction that isn't demolished?

[DaveP]

When you're only demoing part of a wall, you need to split the Existing Wall using the Split tool.
Then you can Demo just the part that's being replaced.

[MNsnowtaTy]

Ok that's what I figured I just didn't want to go around splitting walls without being 100% positive. Thanks again for the help. I'll keep posting any other questions I have here!

[SCShell]

Hey there,
One other minor thing about phasing (we all learned this at one point or another!)
Try using "Show Complete" vs "Show All" when working, including rendering. If you don't, you end up with a lot grey objects.

A little FYI in advance.
Good luck, now and in the "Future Phase" !
Steve