"An unknown error has occurred while accessing the central file"

[mark_a]

Hello Team,
I have an issue which so far has cost a day and a half and is not necessarily resolved. I won't know if ti is resolved until next time I try to save to central. After STC has run for some time, a message tells about the unknown error, reassures me the local file has been saved recently then shuts the program. Subsequent attempts to STC get the same message. The local file is stuffed and must be recreated, losing all work. Recreate local file, check STC works, continue working, STC, error message, lose all work again. It is issues like this which can destroy any goodwill or perceived advantage Revit may have over other software. Issue with Revit? Issue with operating system? I don't know, but what I DO know is I have had zero productivity since yesterday morning. This does not sit well with management, and the echoes of "we should be documenting this with Microstation or Autocad" are getting louder. Don't get me wrong, I would hate to go back (backward) to Autocad as Revit leaves it in the shade, said with ten years experience on Autocad.
However, it is issues like this, if they cannot be resolved easily in a timely manner, are a major bugbear to the acceptance of Revit by management, who ultimately decide which software we will use.
Anyone else had similar issues? Anyone found a fix?
mark_a

[beegee]

Check out the tips from Wes Mac and James Van in THIS THREAD (http://forums.augi.com/showthread.php?t=3963)

Could be ... ?

[mark_a]

Thanks for the reply Beegee,
The Save to Central (again) issue was merely inconvenient, as STC was delayed, this issue prevents STC full stop. No STC no progress.
The only thing that I can think of lately that MAY be a bit unusual, is the creation of a workset called "levels-not visible" so that levels could be placed in the project that can be used to locate various walls, platforms etc. The workset is off by default so it does not show in existing or new views. This was checked out with our local support and their advice was there should be no issues. Just trying to think of anything that might be causing this grief.

mark_a

Edit: Sorry Mark, I just remembered the tips , not that you were the original poster. - bg.

[Steve_Stafford]

The error sounds like network connectivity otherwise Revit usually would have offered something more helpful. What kind of network are you using and has IT been doing upgrades? Any chance SP2 has been installed?

Is this the first workset project? Is this a common occurence or just this once? How many folks are working on the project at the same time. Are you each diligently using your own local file and saving to central routinely. Are you borrowing elements or checking out entire worksets.

There are so many possibilities. You need to start retracing your steps and look for clues.

If you are unable to STC and your local file is the most recent version you could create a new central from you local so you don't lose work.

What version are you using? We've had very stable behavior with 6.1 and the most recent builds.

[mark_a]

Hello Steve,
Yes, IT have installed a new server, about 2 weeks ago, had a man in today to "tweak"it some more.
No SP2 is not installed.
Yes, this is the first workset project, (actually, it is the first project for me on Revit),
Error common only recently,
Five Revit seats on this one,
Always work on local file only, STC about 4 times daily,
Checking out worksets, and sending requests to edit when necessary.
Can't use local file as new Central, due to other users,
Version 6.0.
Yes, I guess there are some possible causes here.
Last STC worked fine.
I am hoping all of this will go away and I will come in on Monday and everything will be just rosy.
Cheers, and thanks for the reply.

Mark

[sbrown]

To test if it is a network issue, move your central file to your local drive, then when you stc repoint it to the file now on your local machine. I have experienced countless STC issues with previous versions of Revit. With the newer versions they have been rare. I feel your pain I have lost many man hours do to worksets issues in the past. It is by far the most frustrating and helpless feeling when you can't save the work you have done.

If its not the network issue, you can try uploading all the files to support and they will find the error.

[mark_a]

This is getting tedious. Revit crashes, saves local file, then cannot save to central.
At present I can expect to lose work, rebuild local file and have many hours of unproductive stuffing around about every second or third day.
Anyway, Revit is being bad mouthed yet again in this office. If it can cope with the size and complexity of the project we are documenting, good, however it is stuffing up often enough for me to lose faith in its ability to do the job, let alone do it efficiently.
Anyway, enough whinging, I have lost enough time already

mark_a

[Steve_Stafford]

Mark if you are still using 6.0 you should upgrade to the latest build of 6.1. This should go a long way to improving stability. Version 6.0 had more workset related issues that we encountered, all of which have been either completely eliminated or much improved.

Some things you can try to do diligently to see if it helps:

Always start with a new local file each day, discard the previous days including the backup folder. Don't use the same name and overwrite the previous local. If you have to create a new central, use a different name so a new backup folder is created too. Don't overwrite the existing one with the "new" central file.

Borrow elements instead of checking out entire worksets and save frequently both locally and back to central.

Make sure everyone "really" isn't working in the central file directly. Have folks name their local file with their initials and todays date so you can wander by their desk, see what the file name they are working on is unobtrusively.

Don't open linked Revit projects in separate Revit sessions at the same time and copy/paste data from one to the other. This does an end around the error message that you are opening a linked file and tells you close the existing session first and will cause problems.

Hopefully an upgrade to 6.1's latest build will go a long way to smoothing things out.

[mark_a]

Steve,
Thanks for the reply.
Local support recommends we DO NOT upgrade our project to 6.1.
How can I create a new local file for each of six Revit seats without taking up most of the morning?

Borrowing elements instead of checking out worksets? Can this be done from the workset dialog box? Or am I missing something here?

I already save locally and to central often, but obviously not often enough. There lies the rub, if I am saving, I am not working, if the saves have to be very frequent due to fear of losing work then not much gets done, BUT what has been done MIGHT be saved.

Everyone works on a local file, the IT {edited} is the only one who is ALLOWED to create new local files. The file has the users initials, but not the date as yet we don't create new local files daily.

Linked Revit projects? This is the only Revit project in this office.

The borrowing of elements seems to be the only thing I am doing differently. By this do you mean when you attempt to edit something and it is not editable the "make elements editable" box appears. If no one else has possession of that element it can be made editable. If this is what you mean then I use this all the time if I don't have that workset checked out. Often though another user has possession and a request must be granted to edit the element.



Thanks again for your reply Steve.

mark_a

[Steve_Stafford]

Local support recommends we DO NOT upgrade our project to 6.1.Why on earth are they making that recommendation? I don't know enough about your operation and hope they do...but with the newer version having fixed workset bugs and process significantly I don't understand this recommendation.


How can I create a new local file for each of six Revit seats without taking up most of the morning?Each user creates their own by opening the central file in the morning and doing a saveas. Save it to your local PC harddrive. I save mine in MyDocuments in a Revit folder with one folder for each project I'm involved in. After a couple days I delete all the earlier local files and backup folders. I append my initials and month/day numbers so it is easy to differentiate. The process takes a couple minutes...long enough for me to grab a coffee sometimes.


Borrowing elements instead of checking out worksets? Can this be done from the workset dialog box? Or am I missing something here? This is the act of making the objects editable through selecting objects and either making a change to them and letting Revit make them editable or using the Right Click>Make Elements Editable option. This "borrows" objects rather than checking out an entire User created workset. This allows you to work in an area more closely and reduces the instances of having to get permission from another user.


I already save locally and to central often, but obviously not often enough. There lies the rub, if I am saving, I am not working, if the saves have to be very frequent due to fear of losing work then not much gets done, BUT what has been done MIGHT be saved.Our project files range from 20mb to nearly 100mb at present. A STC takes less than a minute typically and I STC and relinquish stuff several times an hour, as soon as I finish a collection of tasks. If several users are working for 4 hours without doing a STC you are begging for conflicts and it will take a lot longer to finish. Make sense?


Everyone works on a local file, the IT mgr is the only one who is ALLOWED to create new local files. The file has the users initials, but not the date as yet we don't create new local files daily.!!BELLS RINGING NOW!!....share more facts about how he creates local copies and this process. This has me very suspicious...


Linked Revit projects? This is the only Revit project in this office.I was thinking If you have a site model with topography and a building project linked together. Apparently you don't have a campus plan of buildings and site that could be linked to each other and open the door to this issue.

Hey BeeGee, Mark's a "neighbor"...can you put on your "good neighbor" hat and visit?

[Mr Spot]

Sounds like control issues by IT managers are making things difficult. I agree with all Steve's comments. We have a file in excess of 150MB and it only takes about 2-3minutes to do a STC, and we have found sticking to the latest build all the time saves problems...

[Wes Macaulay]

I also agree. Get the 20040720_2100 build installed and see if it will open the file without error. If so, upgrade the project.

PS: If 6.1 can't upgrade the file ("data in the file must be manually upgraded"), look at the ID number(s) of the objects causing the problem. In 6.0 open the project, find the object by that ID and see if there's a reason it might not upgrade. I've had to detach walls sometimes before they would upgrade to 6.1; you might have to delete an object before upgrading.

[aaronrumple]

My money is in IT making the local files... I'd love to see what is going on with that.

Each user should be trained in making a new local file every day. It take each user only a min or two. They should STC and relenquish every day. And make a new local every day.

The only time I ever had anything like yu describe was when I had an old central file on my laptop and put a new local file that pointed to the correct and newer central file on the server. I clicked to fast through the dialogs and got the new file thinking the correct file was the on laptop - not the server.

Given that IT is making local files - by bet is that the local file is getting confused as to where the central really is.

[mark_a]

Local files are created thus:
Delete local file and backup folders.
Open Central file;
Saveas to local folder, rename to local name, (suffix Central replaced with user initials).
Thats it.

However after one of the "unknown errors" this process does not work. When it doesn't, the following occurs.
Upon opening the central file the "make elements editable" box appears. Check OK and a message the central file is in use appears.
OK that and copy central file locally.
Attempt to open local copy of central file. Message to say Central file has been moved. Ok that and open file. Rename to local user name. Save to Central, relinquish everything.
Save will stop while saving locally.
Delete renamed copy of central file and backups.
Then start the process again. After doing the above a local file can be created.
Open central file,
Saveas to local folder, rename.

mark_a

[Steve_Stafford]

Local files are created thus:
Delete local file and backup folders.
Open Central file;
Saveas to local folder, rename to local name, (suffix Central replaced with user initials).
Thats it.The IT mgr does this by visiting each persons PC and following this procedure...or from his/her own workstation?

How many users are actively contributing to this project daily? How many contribute every other day or less frequently?

How long do you/would you continue to use the local copy, assuming you didn't get the error and fall into the "rabbit hole"?

Using a new local copy each day is particularly important with versions of 6.0. Much less so today with the latest builds of 6.1. I still say upgrading to the latest build is a very important step to putting this behind you. Unwillingness to do so is akin to being told, "Don't touch the stove, it's hot!" and touching it anyway...pardon me I have young kids and I couldn't resist :lol: .

On the IT front, is there server space monitoring software in place? The kind that governs how much stuff a folder is allowed to hold and then warns you when you approach or exceed that value? If yes, then it could also be a setting that is too intolerant of pushing the limit by not allowing saves to finish (those that would result in exceeding the allowed folder size).

Is there server side and workstation side Anti-Virus software? Have you tried disabling it at the workstations? I usually think of this as a lame consideration but we are "grasping" a bit here...looking for more clues...

Also at the workstation level are all of the hard drives of the users PC's sufficiently large and do they have enough clear space to allow Revit to swap data and save adequately? Meaning, does anyone's PC only have 1mb left on their hardrive?

Another troubleshooting step you could take. Tell everyone that the project is off limits for half a day. Open the central file yourself and make all four categories of worksets editable by you, in other words, check everything out yourself. Work for that half a day and do a STC every 15-20 minutes. If you do this successfully without an error (my bet is that you will) then the local files are to blame in some way, how they are created, when and how often they are saved to central, the local pc's. If not then something is awry with either the project or the IT infrastrucure, data transfer, an intermittent problem with a router/hub...really a stretch now...

The next step is to create one local file and do the same thing, check everything out yourself and work for the remaining half day, doing a STC every 15-20 minutes again. If no errors, then add another user for the next day. This sounds like a serious impact on your production schedule, maybe too great but you might be able to organize the workload so it could fit in.

My personal conviction is an upgrade to 6.1 will resolve the issue entirely IF the IT mgr is creating local files at each user's PC. So this would be my first move...

All bets are off if this (local file creation) is done from the IT mgr's desk.

[aaronrumple]

"Local files are created thus:
Delete local file and backup folders.
Open Central file;
Saveas to local folder, rename to local name, (suffix Central replaced with user initials).
Thats it."

I wouldn't be doing it that way.
First off by deleting the backup files you are losing your ability to recover a project in the event of a disaster. Have you ever looked at the Lose Changes, Workset History, or Workset Backups? I know IT doesn't like files sitting around, but those backup folders can come in handy. I'll delete workstation backup files maybe every two weeks after making sure everyone has saved to central and I have a good backup of that file.

By just copying the file to the workstations - each user will get a prompt "The Central file has been copied or moved...." All it takes is one person on the team to then follow the Save As instructions and you are now pretty well hosed.

Also there might be a problem if everyone hasn't saved to central. If the central has items checked out and you delete the associated local file - those changes are gone. Not only that - now the central file is waiting for those objects to be retuned.

Tell IT to lighten up. Train your users to make their own local copy. Everyone will be much happier.

[mark_a]

Hello Steve, Aaron
Thanks for the replies,
Steve,
The process is done at the users PC.
Six seats on a daily basis, less if someone is sick or on leave.
Local copy is used until its dead. No office policy for creation of new local files, when it breaks make another one.
Upgrade to 6.1, would love to try it on a copy of the project just to see what we get, but this is out of my hands.
As for server and other IT issues we don't have space monitoring, and the anti virus software is not available to me.
Each PC has about 60 GB available.
Your other recommendations are a bit more difficult to implement, but if things don't improve we may have to go there.
It seems the fundamental error is not creating new local files frequently.

Aaron,
The local file and backups are deleted AFTER the local file has died. As we don't create local files until the previous one is broken, there is no danger of losing data. While the process is flawed, (in that the new local file is created after the previous one has crashed) the logic is sound.
No I have never looked at the files (journals? they are journals?) you mention.
For the record, what process do you use to create local files?
The copying of the central file to local PC is only done when the "normal" method fails.
Take your point Re IT, but could be a tough nut to crack. Will try to get some kind of policy regarding local files in place. Wish me luck.

Guys, two days have passed and all quiet so far. Keeping my fingers and toes crossed.
Thanks for your help and time it is appreciated.
mark_a

[Steve_Stafford]

I still think an upgrade will make all the difference...until then daily local files should help...don't wait till one crashes... The EyeTee person is logged in as the user when the local is created?

Can you request/suggest your EyeTee person visit our little forum and let us "bash" him/her around...politely of course...with our wise and all knowing knowledge? (tongue firmly in cheek) There are quite a few folks here plus those at the factory who can dance quite nicely on the EyeTee dance floor....

Ultimately are they interested in maintaining control at the expense of productivity or are they really interested in "killing" the problem? Or is it the "users" fault because "you" are doing "something" wrong??

We wish you well!!

[sbrown]

First, I feel your pain completely, I've been through the prayer before every STC that it will work this time scenario.

Now to solve your problem


UPGRADE NOW!!!! I've worked with worksets since the first release they came out with them and have had STC problems in ALL releases, I have had very few in 6.1 So here's how it goes.

Pick whose file has the most up to date data that you don't want to lose. create a new central file from it in a new location. have that person check out all the worksets and then return them.

now open the file in 6.1 and create your first local file, make a change, STC make sure it worked.

Now have everyone else create their own local files, IT should not be doing this. Teach the users how to open the central, click save as and save it to their hardrive(the saves will be much quicker)

Now if you absolutely can't upgrade to 6.1

Previous revit releases had a bug in which worksets were not "returned consistantly" even when the relinguish buttons were checked, this caused one file to think someone else had a workset checked out, even though they didnt. The solution is as follows, have everyone that can stc do and relinquish all they can. Then the user with the error STC needs to check out all the worksets revit allows them to and return them and check them out again, this will "refresh" the system allowing you to save. Before you do the STC try just Reloading latest worksets first(does that complete successfully) if so, you now have a file with all the data, do a few more rounds of checking out all the worksets(make your you are checking them all(families, views, project standards and user) then relinquishing them(just buy going to the worksets box and Highlighting them all and making them non editable.)

9 times out of 10 my problems STC were related to this discrepency between user files and central files not knowing who had what.

You need to also insure that all local users are saving their local file after they save to central, if their is a crash(non worksets related) the local file may become out of sync with the central in regards to knowing who has what.

This whole scenario has not happened since 6.1 to me, so I highly recommend the upgrade.

Good luck and you aren't alone.

Steve can verify, but I think it was early releases of 6.0 that we had some issues with borrowed worksets items not getting returned to the central on STC and that causing problems.