Is there a Revit to Bentley Export Process?

[thand]

I was just recently asked by my boss... Can Revit export it's BIM model to a Bentley BIM model?

I could only answer with "I think so.... using the IFC export format..."

So my question is.... What is the process if a client or government entity wanted a Bentley BIM deliverable, but we wanted to use Revit to create our BIM model??

Does anyone have any experience with this? and what was your process?


Thanks

[Dimitri Harvalias]

Revit can export directly to Microstation's DGN file format but is only compatible up to version 7.
Check out this thread for more details.
http://forums.augi.com/showthread.php?t=49326&highlight=dgn+export

[thand]

Revit can export directly to Microstation's DGN file format but is only compatible up to version 7.
Check out this thread for more details.
http://forums.augi.com/showthread.php?t=49326&highlight=dgn+export



Thanks Dimitri, I'll check it out.

[thand]

Just wondering if anything has been done to upgrade file compatibility in the 2008 releases of Revit?

I might be starting a project with consultants using Microstation and they are asking about file import/export/translation from Microstation to Revit and vice versa.
http://forums.augi.com/showthread.php?t=49326&highlight=dgn+export



Dimitri, above was your quote from the other Bentley Discussion Thread. I would be interested to discuss what you learned outside of what was discussed from that discussion thread. Did you ever go through with that project? Were there any other insights or tricks that you discovered?

We are starting to see some BIM requirements through governmental agencies that are geared toward the Bentley Architecture BIM. But we as a firm don't want to have to learn 2 BIM softwares. So I'm hopeful that Revit will soon have some sort of integration or process that will translate back and forth.

Did you happen to see this article?
http://www.aecmag.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=224&Itemid=36

Thanks again for any advice on the matter..

Todd

[Tyveka]

Todd,

We actually went to Autodesk directly to see if there was a solution in the works. The short answer - no.

What you really need to do is contact the person in charge at the government agency and see if you can work around the need for the Building Information Model to be in Bentley format. Some of the agencies only use it because they are used to Bentley... they don't really know what BIM brings to them and are therefore ignorant of the issues that we face in the industry.

And just so you know, you aren't alone in this situation. We are facing the EXACT same situation...

[thand]

Todd,

We actually went to Autodesk directly to see if there was a solution in the works. The short answer - no.

What you really need to do is contact the person in charge at the government agency and see if you can work around the need for the Building Information Model to be in Bentley format. Some of the agencies only use it because they are used to Bentley... they don't really know what BIM brings to them and are therefore ignorant of the issues that we face in the industry.

And just so you know, you aren't alone in this situation. We are facing the EXACT same situation...


Our first impression was this as well. Try to get them to change the Bentley Requirement, but when we asked the response we were given was

"All submitted BIM Models and associated Facility Data shall be fully compatible
with Bentley BIM v8 with associated USACE Bentley BIM v8 Workspace file formats."

What I think is interesting is... when... the Government has a construction project they most of the time require the specifications to have 3 suitable products or manufacturer's for almost everything that goes into the project. That way they can choose the most cost effective way of constructing the project and not be required to use one specific product or manufacturer. Why doesn't this apply with the design process? and the software used?

I guess the Gov. doesn't want several BIM models and have to train people to use all the different BIM applications. But still frustrating....

[Baldwin_4-6-0]

I was just recently asked by my boss... Can Revit export it's BIM model to a Bentley BIM model?

I could only answer with "I think so.... using the IFC export format..."

So my question is.... What is the process if a client or government entity wanted a Bentley BIM deliverable, but we wanted to use Revit to create our BIM model??

Does anyone have any experience with this? and what was your process?


Thanks

You must be working with the COE.

We have Revit for Architectural & Structural and we are currently using Bentley for the MEP side of BIM.
We use .dwg format as the "go-between" (fun fun).

I'll put it this way I feel sorry for our MEP folks, they have allot of extra work using Bentley. I am pretty sure Bentley is the Debil.

Forget about IFC, unless you like 3D elements disappearing and behaving incorrectly.

.dwg is the way to go if forced to travel this Revit/Bentley path. And Navisworks might help you to, but be prepared to suck up a big price tag w/ Navisworks. ( we are not using Navisworks yet).

[Dimitri Harvalias]

Did you ever go through with that project? Were there any other insights or tricks that you discovered?

The project/collaboration was shelved so I didn't find the need to follow up. I don't think any progress has been made and to be honest I dont expect any. The DGN compatibility is a holdover from Revit's pre-Autodesk days and I doubt that Adesk would spend a whole pile of time bringing it up to date unless there was a huge outcry.
From what I have read IFC will (eventually) be the 'universal' format for BIM model and data information. As has been alluded to, that process is far from seamless at the moment.

[thand]

The project/collaboration was shelved so I didn't find the need to follow up. I don't think any progress has been made and to be honest I dont expect any. The DGN compatibility is a holdover from Revit's pre-Autodesk days and I doubt that Adesk would spend a whole pile of time bringing it up to date unless there was a huge outcry.
From what I have read IFC will (eventually) be the 'universal' format for BIM model and data information. As has been alluded to, that process is far from seamless at the moment.


Thanks for the information Dimitri, hopefully we will see something in the future that will solidify the IFC process.

Thanks again.

Todd

[trice]

Has this process been revised at all in the (10) months between this posting and now? I am facing the exact same situation, and am just starting into Revit 2010 and was thinking that maybe this had been wokred in or out?
Thanks!

[twiceroadsfool]

There are various processes that will get "a model" from Revit to Bentley, "in some form."

Dont let *anyone* tell you it will be an acceptable model for a COE project with the USACE. Theres a very very very very very large difference between exporting a 3d model from Revit and having it opened in Bentley, and having a model that was Built in Bentley, to Bentley standards, by Bentley users, in a dictated Bentley deliverable format. Its a lot like our DWG sheet exports: Theyre a background set of drawings you can use as a reference for AutoCAD overlaying, but (as an AutoCAD user) if i had to inherit a project that way and turn it in to an efficient AutoCAD project, it would be a mess.

The old Bentley "Make BIM" Revit exporter is no longer supported (hasnt been since 2008 version), and im not sure if anyone has gotten it to work *unsupported.* I havent, but ive only tried once. Unsupported = Not depending on it as a viable option.

Some people have gotten "a project or two" in to Bentley "in acceptable format," with a lot of outside help from either Bentley, Autodesk, or both. I'll reiterate: Dont think this is the norm.

An IFC export that is then brought in to Bentley, by and large, doesnt fit the bill either. Some things get hacked to bits, some things dont export, some things arent the right entities as they should be.

Im not trying to be the naysayer, but i hate when completely one-of solutions get passed off to inquiring minds as something seamless and efficient. The COE wants a VERY specific thing when they give you their Attachment F, and they want it for specific reasons. Can it be done? Im sure. But its gonna take some time for your office to figure out a process that works for you, and is acceptable to the COE. Ive heard of IFC working for some people, after a lot of tweaking. Ive heard the old exporter worked... After a lot of tweaking. What that *tweaking is* depends on who you ask...

[huw.roberts]

Well said twiceroadsfool, and true.

However, for other interactions between Revit and Bentley BIM applications there are two useful resources for Revit users. We at Bentley actually do like you folks ;-)

One is free: the i-model plug-in for Revit gets the Revit Geometry and most (all?) of the information fields (but not the parametric behaviours) into a Bentley BIM model with high fidelity. ---> http://www.Bentley.com/Revit

The other is a great model review, interference detection, and management, schedule simulation application named ProjectWise Navigator. The latest version rocks, and is WAY less expensive than Navisworks. ---> http://www.bentley.com/navigator.

Hope this helps,
Huw

[twiceroadsfool]

Well said twiceroadsfool, and true.

However, for other interactions between Revit and Bentley BIM applications there are two useful resources for Revit users. We at Bentley actually do like you folks ;-)

One is free: the i-model plug-in for Revit gets the Revit Geometry and most (all?) of the information fields (but not the parametric behaviours) into a Bentley BIM model with high fidelity. ---> http://www.Bentley.com/Revit

The other is a great model review, interference detection, and management, schedule simulation application named ProjectWise Navigator. The latest version rocks, and is WAY less expensive than Navisworks. ---> http://www.bentley.com/navigator.

Hope this helps,
Huw

Yeah. Now that i-model and Bentley ProjectWise Navigator have been brought up, let me reiterate: From the standpoint of a firm who works every day in Revit, and is looking to fulfil the needs of a USACE bentley Attachment F BIM requirement in DGN format.... Neither will help, AT ALL. Especially on a job going through the COE. The i-model plugin creates an i-dgn file, which converts to an Overly.DGN file, which is NOT editable as a Bentley BIM model, as if it was created in the USACE workspace of bentley.

As i said again: Regardless of what you hear, there is no EASY button, aside from BUILDING the project in Bentley.

Huw- Dont misunderstand me: im not on the Revit side, im on the ARCHITECTURE side. However, for those of us using Revit as day to day production tool, there currently IS no good answer to this question. And we have i-model and ProjectWISE here (as well as full Bentley V8i). Aside from natively doing the job in Bentley or contracting the job our after the fact, there is no easy button, INCLUDING i-model and ProjectWise. It wouldnt be prudent to make anyone here thing otherwise. Not saying you were trying too, but i like to keep the truth distinctive for the Revit users. :)

[dmwirtz]

Here's my two cents - we did a project this past year for the COE and we had to adhere to the Attachment F requirements and so forth. Being a Revit/AutoCad office we had to figure out a work around and quite frankly there isn't one. Although we became quite familar on how to export an object out of Revit and import it into Bentley and once it is in there we just needed to attach some information to it in order to meet the requirement of BIM.

We became familar with this process because we spent $$ and sent a team to get trained by Bentley trainers and the only thing that saved us was that our deliverables during construction had to be 2D .dgn sheets and that is easily occomplished through Autocad/Bentley but our As-Built model had to be a 'native' bentley model and so we did re-create each building in Bentley but it was pretty easy and since our sheets still had to be .dgn they didn't need to come from this particular Bentley model so we were able to meet attachment F and still draw in Revit and in Bentley.

We are about to embark on another project and it is working with a different COE district so it will be interesting to see if the same method works but from what I understand even once the COE offices get these models in place they really don't know what to do with them.

It should be noted that there are people in the office that feel that we should of never done these in Revit and should have done them right in Bentley from the get go - I don't agree with them at all and there has been some lively debate in the office but with no definate answer. The only thing that is saving us is that we have more people trained in on Revit than we do in Bentley and so far we also have more jobs that allow us to use Revit so I don't see things going towards the Bentley any time soon.

[Scott D Davis]

The only COE projects that must be Bentley deliverables are the Centers of Standardization (COS) projects. All other COE projects CAN be delivered in Revit format. Attachment F is a document that includes RVT, DWG, and DGN by default. This document often gets edited to show only DGN by some COE project managers.

Work with the COE to get the deliverable changed to RVT. (unless they are COS projects)

[twiceroadsfool]

Sorry Scott, i did- in fact- misspeak. We were/are working on CoS projects with them. Interesting, what you say about the Attachment F. Ours definitively says only DGB/Bentley. In the midst of earlier attempts, offers were even made (via an implementation plan that stated we would deliver RVT, IFC, and the 2D DGN sheets (which, interestingly enough, come out better exporting to DWG and opening in Bentley than they do exporting to DGN, LOL)).

No dice, at least in these districts.

But id love to see a copy of the attachment F that includes all formats, if you have one on hand. :)