Window default sill height problem

[CADMama]

OK - so I have this window with trim and/or muntins and/or shutters and things are going well.

I wanted to create a catalog of the window family and tried to put in the Default Sill Height but it is not working for me.

My window consistently comes in 9" higher than I want it to.

Any suggestions?

[eddy.lermytte]

Donnia
Try this:
I have checked the Elements Properties of the Sill Reference Plane "Defines Origin" and replaced the windows Default Sill Height relative to the Floor Line.

[CADMama]

OK - I see that now. Dang, how did I miss that one. Now I am off to make a pair of Double - Double hung windows.

[ljupadhyay]

Whwt is merit & demerits of default and variable Sill height ?

[aaronrumple]

Whwt is merit & demerits of default and variable Sill height ?

There are no merits or demerits as all windows have a default sill height and all windows are variable in sill height. The default sill height is the height as the family is drawn. The variable is the ability to move the window up and down.

The issue here is - how does Revit determin where the sill is? If there is no ref. plane defined as an origin - then Revit will use the lowest 3d modeled extents of the windows as the sill. If you have a ref. plane set as origin - that is used as the location of the sill.

[CADMama]

So - does that mean that what we did to my window family is going to cause problems?

[aaronrumple]

No - the family is fine. You can dimension the default sill height - but it makes no difference. Even if this dimension is deleted - it will still work. It is the placement of the window in the family that determins the initial sill height when placed in a project. The constrained dimension just helps you see what it is.

Head height is calculated as height + default sill height.

[sthedens]

Default Sill Height (or lack of understanding of) has caused me many problems. Here is my take on how it works.

First, make sure your window family's Ref. View cut plane is at the same height as your normal floor plans in your project (4'-0" normally).

When you create the window family there is NOT a "Sill Height" parameter. When you place the window in a project, you now have a "Sill Height" instance parameter. This is the parameter that actually controls the vertical location of the window.

When you create a window family, there is already a "Default Sill Height" type parameter associated with the vertical location of the window. After you place the window in a project, modifying the "Default Sill Height" parameter will NOT affect the vertical location of the actual window.

Changing the "Default Sill Height" parameter can affect the display of the window in plan view. This is the problem I was encountering. The "Default Sill Height" is relative to the view level the component is displayed on, not the component placement level. For example, I needed a clerestory window in a high volume space. I made the "Default Sill Height" 12'-8" in my window family. In the project I created a Clerestory plan view to show these windows. My plan display looked like the thumbnail "incorrect display" below. Even though my cut plane for the Clerestory view was passing through the window, I did not see the jambs and glazing. If I changed the "Default Sill Height" value to be relative to my Clerestory reference plane my display looked like the thumbnail "correct display" below.

It's as if the "Default Sill Height" creates a virtual window at a vertical location relative to the plan view reference plane. As long as the cut plane of the view passes through this vitual window, the jambs and glazing will display correctly.

[tgorter]

I have the same window family at differnet heights. Some of the windows display correctly, others do not. The ones that don't display correctly have the same issue as in the posted images - something in the window family (the head?) is blocking the rest of the family.

What do i do???????

[sthedens]

Default Sill Height is a Type parameter, so changing its value will affect all windows of the same Type, as opposed to an Instance parameter that only affect the currect selected element.

So, I believe you have two options:

1. Create a new Family Type within the family that has Default Sill Height value that allows for the height difference.
2. Create a Plan Region around the incorrectly displaying windows and adjust the View Range values to get the correct display.

I like option 1 if you have a lot of these incorrect display occurrences.

[aaronrumple]

Default Sill Height is a Type parameter, so changing its value will affect all windows of the same Type, as opposed to an Instance parameter that only affect the currect selected element.

Default sill height is one of those silly things that Revit really never documented.

It only affects initial placement of the window while in plan. Nothing more.
Changing the value will NOT adust the position of existing windows.
Once a window is placed - the only value that controls the height is the Sill Height parameter which is instance based.
If you place a window in elevation - the default height is ignored. The insertion point is the center of geometry.
If you switch types and the types have different default sill heights - the position of the windows will not move. The default sill height parameter is ignored.

This parameter is in there to make up for the silly way Revit places windows by sill rather than head. If you make type catalogs and only work in plan, you can set up your catalogs such that the windows all initially have the same head height. After that - sill height rules.

I never use the default sill height parameter in my windows families. I perfer to do placement in elevation.

The cut height of the plan view in the family can assist in controling the cut of the window. I use this to good effect with nested familes.

[sthedens]

Correct. As I said earlier:


After you place the window in a project, modifying the "Default Sill Height" parameter will NOT affect the vertical location of the actual window.

However, it will affect the display of the window in Plan View.

[aaronrumple]

Correct. As I said earlier:

However, it will affect the display of the window in Plan View.

I'm not sure I follow and don't see the same thing as your description. Default sill height is related to how the family sits in the family editor and the cut plane is relative to this in the family.

Do you have model of the example you posted?

[sthedens]

Attached is a small sample model. The North Elevation view has some mark-ups that will hopefully explain what's happening.

The model consists of one wall with two windows. The windows are from the same family. Each type is placed at a different elevation. Look at the CLERESTORY level view to see the display problem. Change the Default Sill Height of the 48 x 24 window from 12'-8" to 2'-6" and watch the display correct itself.

[eddy.lermytte]

Try this
Open the Rfa > select WDW Rfa > Edit and go to the Exterior Elevation.

Family Types > select Clerestory Type > Error !
Remove constraints and see what happens.
Looks like the Frame extrusion is in problem.
Align the outer sketch lines of the frame to the right Ref Planes.

Now ... this is the configuration you are asking Revit to represent on project level.
Remember: All geometry cut at Cut plane height will be shown as cut on project level. All other are represented as seen from Top View.
So Revit did what you asked it to do.
Pushing geometry above the Rfa's cut plane (which is on project level fixed / static).
Adding your own Default Sill Height parameter is asking for trouble. .

Set the Sill Height Parameter of the Clerestory type equal to the 48x68 type and delete the parameter.

Notice also where the Hor. Mullions are located. These are not cut by the Rfa's Cut Plane > hence seen from above once inserted in the project., unless they are joined with geometry which is cutted (the Frame for example)
Anyway ... give them appropriate value's.

Load the Rfa in your project again.

Hope this helps.

[sthedens]

Your "Error" is because the wall within the family definition isn't high enough to host the window when you switch to the Clerestory type. Before you change the family type, strecth the wall up several feet, then change the family type. NO ERROR!

All of the sketch lines of the window frame were already aligned with the proper reference planes. The frame extrusion is not the problem.

Establishing a Default Sill Height is the whole point of having the parameter in the first place, "by default, set the sill of this window type at this height relative to the current level". I'm not "Adding my own parameter", I'm using the one Revit provided to do what it was designed to do. I agree, if I set the parameter to a normal window height value (3'-4") my display problem will go away. But, then the user will have to insert the window, and then adjust the "Sill Height" (or just move the window in elevation view) for each insert. Establishing the Default Sill Height in the definition alleviates these extra steps.

The horizontal mullions are to be used in larger window types. I deleted a number of family types in an attempt to keep files small enough to post. Obviously, for a clerestory window with a low profile the visibility of the mullions should be "off". I forgot to turn off the upper mullion prior to posting. But that's not the reason for the display issue.

[sthedens]

Eureka! Here's the real problem. To determine how to display the window, Revit goes back to the Cut Plane elevation as defined in the Family.

For example, in the Reference Plane view in the Family, with the Clerestory window, the display looks wrong because the Cut Plane is at 4'-0". Move the Cut Plane to 13'-6" and the view looks correct. However, now switch to the 48x64 window type and the view is looking at the top of the window, not cutting it any longer.

With the Family Cut Plane at 13'-6" load the family back into the project and look at the ar1all view. Even though the project cut plane passes through the window, the Family cut plane doesn't.

It's like we need a separate View Range or Cut Plane for each Family Type. Or, a separate Family for Clerestory windows.

[aaronrumple]

It's like we need a separate View Range or Cut Plane for each Family Type.

..or like I did - ditch the default sill height parameter.

Some new stuff on the default sill height I don't think I've seen elsewhere. Good thread.