Bearing walls, floors, and doorways

[Chris.N]

ok, spent a good chunk of time searching and didn't find an answer... :?

i would like to know how the masters create floors when they have an interior load bearing cmu (or sim) wall with doors.

do you place individual floors either side of the wall and within the doorway (for the overpour) and join to eliminate the joint?

or do you somehow create voids at the walls after placing a large floor slab?

please help.... i know there are many ways of doing things, but i'm doing double duty here trying to figure out the best practices at the same time as keeping myself speedy & productive.

so far, i'm not getting far with either... :Oops:

[Chris.N]

all right, what i've tried so far is make as large of floor slabs as possible of the same type, and then use vertical openings to cut the slab at the bearing walls that have to go down to a cont. spread footing.

is there a good reason to NOT do it this way, and trace the actual floor sketch to the face of bearing walls, and thru the doorways?

[Mike Sealander]

In general, because I use Revit to help understand construction of a building, I try to model the way the building will get built. So, my preference would be to model each slab separately.

[Chris.N]

In general, because I use Revit to help understand construction of a building, I try to model the way the building will get built. So, my preference would be to model each slab separately.
with that logic i would agree with you. my main (and maybe unimportant) issues are the resulting slab edge lines at the doorways if i went that route.
(don't really want to trace at each doorway as they have a tendency to shift about untill document distribution)

it seems that when joining geometry, the floors take precidence for visibility.... maybe i'm using the wrong tool here? just looking for guidance....

[Andre Carvalho]

Chris,

If I understood what you are trying to do, I believe that if you edit your CMU wall and define its core (in the wall assembly) as "Structure (1)" function and then edit your floor and define its core with a function other than "Structure (1)", Revit will understand that the wall has priority over the floor (because it is set to Structure and the floor isn't) and therefore will automatically make the floor stop at the wall when you look it in section. You don't need to create separetad floors or work with openings to achieve what you are looking for.

Best regards,

Andre Carvalho

[Chris.N]

thanks Andre, that ALMOST worked for me.

what i am currently working with is a radiant floor system in a firestation, as such i need full rigid insulation layer, not just a perimeter. what i have done is include the rigid insulation AND the sand layer in the floor system. works like a charm in sections when i also have sloped floor to trench drains, etc...

the cmu takes precedence at the concrete, then the look fubars at the substrate layers. :banghead:

so far, the void or openings route are my best direction that i have found till the "cut" tool works between walls & floors. (or another solution is posted)

[Chris.N]

here's my example file for clarification

[J. Grouchy]

here's my example file for clarification

If you move both the substrate layers up to within the core boundary then join the wall and floor, you'll get the effect you are looking for (wall passing through the floor without getting split).

Not sure if it's the ideal way to do it, though...it might have negative effects in other aspects of the model.

Besides...when we are detailing sections, CMU walls usually get a repeating detail overlay, so the effect you get with the model is covered up anyway.

[Chris.N]

If you move both the substrate layers up to within the core boundary then join the wall and floor, you'll get the effect you are looking for (wall passing through the floor without getting split).

Not sure if it's the ideal way to do it, though...it might have negative effects in other aspects of the model.
i'm going to give that a try anyway, and i'll let y'all know if i find problems. but, since i'm not a fan of the school of hard knocks, any insight on what problems would be anticipated?


Besides...when we are detailing sections, CMU walls usually get a repeating detail overlay, so the effect you get with the model is covered up anyway.
that's what i plan to do too, it's just all the other views leading up to that level of detail that i'm trying to minimize the cleanup effort required. (i'm the guinea pig for revit implementation, if that's a clue to my Q's. if there's no "easy" way of doing things, they won't switch) :roll:

[J. Grouchy]

i'm going to give that a try anyway, and i'll let y'all know if i find problems. but, since i'm not a fan of the school of hard knocks, any insight on what problems would be anticipated?


Surely nothing major. I know switching that stuff in wall types can lead to some really funky (and aggravating) wall joining conditions...but I doubt you'd run into much here. Just warning you now so you'll think to check it every now and then when you have conditions where something in your model intersects with or joins to the floor (walls, slab edges, etc.).

[Chris.N]

Surely nothing major. I know switching that stuff in wall types can lead to some really funky (and aggravating) wall joining conditions...but I doubt you'd run into much here. Just warning you now so you'll think to check it every now and then when you have conditions where something in your model intersects with or joins to the floor (walls, slab edges, etc.).
aaaaaah, i see!!

if i just make sure that only my SOG floor objects are created as you suggested, i should be ok!

i think i see where my problem is, in above grade floors that overlap the wall structure, the floor takes precedence and cuts the wall in section, and that's where i'm finding conflict.