Distribution Systems

[jdbejk]

I am having trouble creating distribution systems that I can use for my panels. I go in through electrical settings and add them to the list, but when I go to select them from the drop down tool bar in the drawing or in element properties it keeps saying that there are none available. Am I missing something?

[dmb.100468]

Your panels must have a connector that matches the voltage of the distribution system you have created. You will have to open the panel family and edit the properties of the connector.

[james.klatt]

Can you provide a little more specifics? What dist system are you creating? I assume you did assign the dist type under element properties for the specific distibution device? I know a common step that is forgotten is even though you have assigned a voltage for example a 208V panel you still have to go into the element properties and select the 120/208 distribution type. If this step was not done on the distribution device you won't be able to circuit to it.

[jdbejk]

Can you provide a little more specifics? What dist system are you creating? I assume you did assign the dist type under element properties for the specific distibution device? I know a common step that is forgotten is even though you have assigned a voltage for example a 208V panel you still have to go into the element properties and select the 120/208 distribution type. If this step was not done on the distribution device you won't be able to circuit to it.

Ok, I go into the element properties of the panel. I go down to distribution system types, but the thing is that there are no choices. The only choice I have is none. How do I create a distribution system type?

[james.klatt]

Are you using revit's standard family or did you create a new one? If you created a new one you need to make sure you assign a voltage. The voltage must be a type parameter also cannot be an instance. If you want send me an e-mail I can respond quicker.

[ahefner]

I was having the same problem.

It seems the default panelboards (at least the 480V ones - I haven't checked all the different ones yet) weren't inserted and tested to make sure they work without first modifying them.

Here's how you fix them:
1. Either insert one into the project then click Edit Family or open the family.
2. Add a connector
3. Edit the connector's properties
4. In the VOLTAGE parameter enter 480 (or whatever the appropreate voltage is for your application)
5. Under the System Type parameter select Power - Unbalanced
6. For the Load Classification parameter select Power
7. For the Power Factor State parameter select Leading
8. For the Number of Poles parameter select 3
9. Save the Family (overriding the default family when it prompts you)
10. Load family into project if applicable.

Now you should be able to assign a Distribution System for that panel within the Project.

Let me know if you're still having problems or want some screen shots etc.

[zhengrong.fu]

jdbejk, please make sure you have set right Voltage Definitons. Only set Distribution System is not enough.
You can access it by Settings -> Electrical Settings -> Voltage Definitons.
There are voltage list in the right side, which may cotain 120v, 208v, 240v, 277v and 480v. You should add the voltage you used in Distribution System to here.
And each row has its Max and Min value. Please make sure the voltage you set in the type of the electrical connector meet the range. Otherwise, the distribution system will show None or Blank.
You can refer the template in "...\Autodesk\RME 2009\Metric Templates\Mechanical-Default_Metric.rte" to set your own.
If it still don't work. Please feel free to contact me.

Jason Fu, QA Engineer
Autodesk Software (China) Co., Ltd. Shanghai Branch
zhengrong.fu@autodesk.com

[jill.chen]

Or please just refer to the following attachment about Voltage Definitons setting in Electrical-Default or System-Default template:

[robert.manna]

Help :(

I've tried what was listed above, and nothing works. I tried a couple other AUGI posts too. I also tried a blog post from the Revit User's group in Ontario, still not luck. I can't assign a distribution system to my panel.


Volatage Def. check (240)
Distribution System check (120/240 Single, Single, None, 3, 240, 120)
Tried loading the ADSK panel family (208V MCB -Surface)I can't assign the system. I tried screwing around with the family, and the best I could do was assign the (120/208 Wye) system. This is for my own personal house that I'm designing. I'm an experienced architect & Revit user, but I'm sure that I'm missing something not being an engineer. Any help is appreciated, or heck a panel family I can stick in that will work (but I don't mind learning). Its not like I'm trying to design a major elec. system here, I'm mostly interested in being able to circuit everything, as I never like how electricians decide to circuit stuff.

Thank you,
-Robert

[james.klatt]

Attached is a screenshot of some settings you may want to check... This was what I sent to a previous user and it got him working... If not send me an e-mail and I will forward you the whole e-mail chain and from that maybe you can deduce where your problem lies.

[robert.manna]

I'm assuming you're referring to the previously posted screen shot? If so, yes, all those voltage defination settings are present. I still feel like this has something to do with the panel family(s). I'm also looking for advice, since I'm not an engineer, I'm assuming that for typical residential construction in the United States I want to be using the single phase 120/240, and not the "Wye". I've sent you an e-mail too, but if we can resolve the issue within the forum, that is always better for the whole community.

Thanks,
-Robert

[robert.manna]

Here is the non-modified panel family that I've been attempting to load.

[james.klatt]

Also, the screenshot I posted is slightly different than the previous one. Different area within the electrical settings.

[ahefner]

Here is the non-modified panel family that I've been attempting to load.

You need to modify the Electrical Settings to include the 120/240V. I believe default is 120/208 and 277/480V.

Having your project open, select Settings, then Electrical Settings. When the Electrical Settings dialog box pops up, select Distribution Systems.

Click the Add button. Name = 120/240 Single; Phase = Single; Configuration = Delta, Wires = 3; L-L Voltage = 240; L-G Voltage = 120.

Let me know when you get this far.

[robert.manna]

Screen shot of my Voltage & Distrubtion settings.

[robert.manna]

You need to modify the Electrical Settings to include the 120/240V. I believe default is 120/208 and 277/480V.

Having your project open, select Settings, then Electrical Settings. When the Electrical Settings dialog box pops up, select Distribution Systems.

Click the Add button. Name = 120/240 Single; Phase = Single; Configuration = Delta, Wires = 3; L-L Voltage = 240; L-G Voltage = 120.

Let me know when you get this far.

If I try that, I have to select Three for my number of phases in order to select "Delta" and when I do that, I can't assign an L-G voltage as it is greyed out. It doesn't seem to me that the "delta" distribution setting is what I'm looking for when it comes to my little ole house...?

[ahefner]

Here is the non-modified panel family that I've been attempting to load.

The family you linked will not work with a 120/240V distribution system.

Here's how you modify it so that it will work:

Open the family then click on it's connector. Click options; then change it's voltage from 208V to 240V. Change the "Number of Poles" from 3 to 1. Click ok, then save you family (and reload it into your project if needed).

[ahefner]

If I try that, I have to select Three for my number of phases in order to select "Delta" and when I do that, I can't assign an L-G voltage as it is greyed out. It doesn't seem to me that the "delta" distribution setting is what I'm looking for when it comes to my little ole house...?

Oops, my bad.

should be 120/240 Single, Single, None, 3, 240, 120 (change the L-L Voltage; Line to Line; to 240 & L-G Voltage; Line to Ground; from none to 120)

[james.klatt]

Attached are my electrical settings. I am working in 2009 the screenshot i posted before was from an old issue when I was using 2008. It was kind of difficult to see your screenshots. Also your family worked fine as a 120/208 panel. If you are trying to use it as a 120/240 you will need to modify the electrical connector on the family to 240 or 120, I am not completely sure which one I do not do any residential here, and change number of poles to 1 phase.

[robert.manna]

The family you linked will not work with a 120/240V distribution system.

Here's how you modify it so that it will work:

Open the family then click on it's connector. Click options; then change it's voltage from 208V to 240V. Change the "Number of Poles" from 3 to 1. Click ok, then save you family (and reload it into your project if needed).

That did it! I knew it was something stupid.. "No. of poles" duh! I suppose an elec. engineer would've just known....

-R

[ahefner]

Attached are my electrical settings. I am working in 2009 the screenshot i posted before was from an old issue when I was using 2008. It was kind of difficult to see your screenshots. Also your family worked fine as a 120/208 panel. If you are trying to use it as a 120/240 you will need to modify the electrical connector on the family to 240 or 120, I am not completely sure which one I do not do any residential here, and change number of poles to 1 phase.

Your screen shot is what I show. It's been so long since I came across 120/240 for commercial use I'm a little rusty.

[ahefner]

That did it! I knew it was something stupid.. "No. of poles" duh! I suppose an elec. engineer would've just known....

-R

Yeah, the crazy thing about Revit is that it won't let you design a system that's not physically possible to build. (as in 3 pole distribution system and a 1 pole panel).

:D glad we could help.

[james.klatt]

The family you linked will not work with a 120/240V distribution system.

Here's how you modify it so that it will work:

Open the family then click on it's connector. Click options; then change it's voltage from 208V to 240V. Change the "Number of Poles" from 3 to 1. Click ok, then save you family (and reload it into your project if needed).

You beat me to it.

Yah it's been a while for me on 120/240 too. I do not think I have ever used it in Revit either so it was a good refresher that's for sure.

[robert.manna]

Thanks very much guys... I understand, you all do big projects like we do in my firm. Except here I am wanting to be the smart architect and use the tools to design for my house.... :)

I'm sure I will have more questions.....

If I have my Amp's and Votls set correctly on my fixtures (lights etc) Revit will prevent me from putting too much on a single circuit?

Thanks,
-Robert

[ahefner]

You beat me to it.

Yah it's been a while for me on 120/240 too. I do not think I have ever used it in Revit either so it was a good refresher that's for sure.

Exactly!!

I came across it recently on a restaurant remodel, but of course I didn't have any existing site information so designed it as 120/208V, 3P (standard for that restaurant chain). Freaking Building Department sent it back as NOT APPROVED CHECK ELECTRICAL DISTRIBUTION SYSTEM, ETC. Took me 2 more weeks before I could even get the power confirmed.

And redesigning from 208 3p to 240 1p is a major PITN!!!

My project was not in Revit either.

[james.klatt]

Not only volt and amps, but your VA or Apparent Load as Revit calls it. If that is set correctly it will prompt you when you are at 80% of the circuit breaker you are connecting too. It will not prevent you from connecting it, it will just give you a prompt. So you gotta pay attention.

[ahefner]

Thanks very much guys... I understand, you all do big projects like we do in my firm. Except here I am wanting to be the smart architect and use the tools to design for my house.... :)

I'm sure I will have more questions.....

If I have my Amp's and Votls set correctly on my fixtures (lights etc) Revit will prevent me from putting too much on a single circuit?

Thanks,
-Robert

You can open the System Browser (at the bottom of the Electrical tab) and can track the fixtures and devices which have not been assigned to a circuit and you can create a Panel Schedule to check the loads and totals.

IIRC, there's a tutorial for setting up a custom schedule that will turn the circuit red if it's over a preset limit, but I haven't set one up in 2009 or since that tutorial.

[robert.manna]

Not only volt and amps, but your VA or Apparent Load as Revit calls it. If that is set correctly it will prompt you when you are at 80% of the circuit breaker you are connecting too. It will not prevent you from connecting it, it will just give you a prompt. So you gotta pay attention.

How do I determine VA if I need to create a fixture or piece of equipment that isn't out of the box (for that matter should I even trust OOTB content....)? I'm assuming its not something that would either be listed on a cut sheet or Home Depot's webiste.... :).

Thank you so much for everyone's help... you might make me into an engineer, or at least a smarter architect. :)

Thanks,
-Robert

[ahefner]

V * A = Watts

V is noramlly a give for res = 120v

A = unknown

W = light bulb

So if you have a chandelier with 5 heads with 75 watt light bulbs each, the specs would be:

V = 120
A = 3.125
W = 375

W / V = A

VA is another way of saying W.

VA is generally used if there is a ballast or transformer involved and generally there is a safety factory (20-25%) within the number. Meaning if you have a low voltage transformer it's output will be say 100VA (100 watts but with a safety factor so it could potentially handle 120-125 watts, but you're only allow to load it to it's rate VA = 100VA or 100W).

[james.klatt]

You just made his head spin for sure... HAHA... j/k

[ahefner]

We have to confuse the architects or they'll start doing our job :D

[robert.manna]

We have to confuse the architects or they'll start doing our job :D

Trust me,. I'm happy to let you keep desiging the big stuff.... But I wouldn't want to waste your time and talents on a ****** little house. :)

In all seriousness, thanks, this should help out alot, and hopefully prevent me from doing anything too stupid...

Now, I just need to sort out my HVAC load calcs, and I should be good....

I'm hoping I'll be able to make the water flow downhill without much help. :)

-R

[iburgess]

Hello,

I am new to the Revit MEP World, and your last list of posts about the distrubution system have helped me out, so thanks very much for that. Now I am trying to connect my circuited switches and lights to the panel and I get the following error.


"Cannot assign or add 120, 0 V/208 V, Three Phase, 3 Wires, Wye to Circuit. The Voltage (120 V) for the Circuit is out of range for the Line to Ground Voltage for 120, 0 V/208 V, Three Phase, 3 Wires, Wye (The Line to Ground Voltage is specified in the assigned Distribution System)."

In the Settings / Electrical Settings / Distrubtion System / the option for L-G is grayed out, but I think that is what the error message is referring to when saying "The Line to Ground Voltage"..

Any help would be great, Thanks

[james.klatt]

Under the distribution system settings. Change the phase from either three to single or vice versa. It looks like if you haven't tweaked those categories the L-G is grayed out by default.

[iburgess]

Thanks for the reply I will try that.

[timothy.braggs1]

Thanks for the reply I will try that.

I followed the instructions given on the two .jpg files that were posted of the voltage definitions and distribution systems.

I am now creating a 26,0000sf electrical system thank to you guys!!!!! I finally got past the dreaded "none" for dist. systems!!!

[james.klatt]

I followed the instructions given on the two .jpg files that were posted of the voltage definitions and distribution systems.

I am now creating a 26,0000sf electrical system thank to you guys!!!!! I finally got past the dreaded "none" for dist. systems!!!

Wow you went searching in the archives to find this thread. Glad it worked out.

[lenz180826734309]

Ok, I go into the element properties of the panel. I go down to distribution system types, but the thing is that there are no choices. The only choice I have is none. How do I create a distribution system type?

try this mate first, go in your families panel and create only one electrical connector and click the connector you make and look on the properties changes (Voltage) to 220V if you using 220V or any you using save and upload to project.

inside the project go to mep settings tab and click electrical settings. WIring drop down arrow click Voltage Definisions set you min & max & value V
104018

next create Distribution Systems
104019

note my panel have 24V to 400V

press ok
click your families inside the project and look on properties scroll down look for distribution system change for your prefference.

hope this can help you

[dcalloway]

Is there a way to apply two different connectors to the panel family and be able to set it to different "Distribution Systems"? Or do I have to create different families for each distribution system?