Door swing between phases

[UpNorth]

Our door families have been setup to allow the door swing angle to be adjusted. Like most, we show the existing doors at 45 degrees. Anyone think of a way to have a door vreated in Phase 1 (90 degrees) and then becomes existing in Phase 2 to show 45 degrees?

So, one door with a different swing angle based on view (or better phase).

Thanks,

[patricks]

It should be possible with conditional "if" statements (if [phase = phase1, 90, 45] as a formula in your swing angle parameter). But I'm not totally sure if you can use the Phase as an operator in an If statement.

Actually that probably won't work, because you would have to have different instance parameters showing up in different views, and I just don't think that's possible with Revit families. A family's instance parameters are constant for that instance in all views, regardless of phase.

[twiceroadsfool]

Its not possible. We currently use the unhappy solution of different door families for existing and new....

[DaveP]

You can't use the Phase as a parameter.
When you create your Family, the Family Editor has no concept of the Phases you're going to use in your project. One building might use Existing and New. Another might have Existing, Bid Pack 1, Bid Pack 2. Another might use Existing, Shell, TI.
I'd be surprised if we ever see Phase aware families.

You might, however, be able to use Symbolic Line Sub-Categories. If you only ever need 2 phases, you could make Line Sub-Categories for Existing and New and turn on only the category you need in each View.

Just remember, you're probably going to kick yourself some day when you need a third Phase. Don't say I didn't warn you. ;)

[jeffh]

You could also make an adjustable swing door with an angle parameter tied to a custom phase parameter with a formula.

If it was me, I would just make it a swing angle parameter and then create a type for existing and a type for new. Only difference being the swing angle of the door. It is not "automatic" and tied to the phase, but selecting if it is existing or new at the time of placement is not a huge job.

[twiceroadsfool]

You can't use the Phase as a parameter.
When you create your Family, the Family Editor has no concept of the Phases you're going to use in your project. One building might use Existing and New. Another might have Existing, Bid Pack 1, Bid Pack 2. Another might use Existing, Shell, TI.
I'd be surprised if we ever see Phase aware families.

It should have to know the specific Phases of any project. As far as a family is concerned, the phases in the family editor should read:

"When created previously"
"When created currently"

Really those are the only issues, in my opinion. Demolition and Temporary items are handled with Line styles, and Future items we use trickery for as well... So really, if they gave us those two parameters, the views themselves should have to figure it out...

[ron.sanpedro]

Our door families have been setup to allow the door swing angle to be adjusted. Like most, we show the existing doors at 45 degrees. Anyone think of a way to have a door vreated in Phase 1 (90 degrees) and then becomes existing in Phase 2 to show 45 degrees?

So, one door with a different swing angle based on view (or better phase).

Thanks,

I guess my question is, why bother? In hand drafting, where getting whole areas of the building to be screened was a chore, the 45 degree rule was fine, for doors. Didn't work for walls, windows, stairs, cabinets or anything else that might actually be existing. And when you actually have two (New) doors opening back to back, you have to have them overlap in order to not say they are existing.
Revit out of the box lets you use one single graphic representation for existing, namely screened lines. Easy to do, and the fact that EVERYTHING uses the same representation I think actually aids in comprehension. And with RAC 2009 you can have your By Category line weights for Existing and Demo, which also really helps legibility.
Seems to me this is one of those places where letting go of a basically hand drafting convention is the best answer. Then again, I have been using the screened for existing approach in AutoCAD for a a decade now, so it is very familiar to me.

Best,
Gordon

[twiceroadsfool]

Gordon, for what its worth, i 110% agree with what you just wrote, LOL...

[UpNorth]

You have a good point Gordon... now I just need to convince 100 other people in the firm! lol

[dbaldacchino]

The reason we don't use screening is because of printing/reproductions. Of course if you print from a digital source instead of a scanned image etc, it wouldn't be much of a problem. But you're absolutely right...it's just that we're clinging to an old drafting habit. For black lined drawings it is nice to see existing doors at 45 degrees. I've used the same door family, put existing doors on an existing workset (extra layer of security), selected all existing doors in an existing view (no new doors showing) and set their instance parameter for swing angle. Of course it is prone to error, but now you have 3 things to tell you whether that door was existing or new.

[ron.sanpedro]

You have a good point Gordon... now I just need to convince 100 other people in the firm! lol

Or do you just have to convince the 3-10 or so owners/principals. I can't imagine that the intern's opinion on the topic really holds much water. ;)

But it is an uphill battle.

Gordon

[ron.sanpedro]

The reason we don't use screening is because of printing/reproductions. Of course if you print from a digital source instead of a scanned image etc, it wouldn't be much of a problem. But you're absolutely right...it's just that we're clinging to an old drafting habit. For black lined drawings it is nice to see existing doors at 45 degrees. I've used the same door family, put existing doors on an existing workset (extra layer of security), selected all existing doors in an existing view (no new doors showing) and set their instance parameter for swing angle. Of course it is prone to error, but now you have 3 things to tell you whether that door was existing or new.

I suspect it must be a building type thing. In most of the work I have done that required phases, doors where a rather small subset of what needed to be shown as Existing, New or Demo, and finding a graphic convention that worked for everything was paramount. As long as doors had so more importance than windows, walls, fixtures and the rest, there was no reason to give them a different or extra graphic representation. For what it is worth, for some residential stuff I just make all doors 45 as the only option, and still use screened lines for Existing. I show the swing thru the range of motion. Works well. Also looks more like the doors I drew with a drafting template back in the mid 80's. ;)

And speaking of reproduction, I worked in an office that did a major evaluation of different line weights and screen values, printed to paper, pdf and dwf in house. Then sent out for two levels of reproduction, because the office decided that this was what the drawings could expect to be put thru. The variation and range of line weights as well as screen values was amazingly curtailed as a result, but by using that limited set of options, you could trust that the drawings would be legible in the field.
I would rather provide a PDF and expect every copy to be from the digital original, the graphic options that open up are worth it in my mind. But it depends so much on project type, contract language, probably even region of the country. Fun. ;)

Best,
Gordon

[dbaldacchino]

Yep, to me it makes sense to just print from the digital media. Unfortunately not everything is in our control and when yoou print halftone/gray from Revit in-house on a Xerox wide format and it's already hard to read and not that clean, then you're already shooting yourself in the foot to make that case ;)

For us, working primarily in Educational, when we do a renovation, we'll have a lot of existing to remain doors. And we have to deal with scheduling existing doors that are getting new hardware or a new panel or new finish on the frame or all of the above, etc., together with new doors and excluding doors to remain as they are. Undoubtedly, the workflow isn't as smooth.....