RAC 2009 - no sweep up roof hips and ridges

[ws]

Is it just me or in RAC 2009 can I no longer use the Host Sweep with Fascia or Gutter option to sweep profiles for ridge tiles along hips and ridges?

This used to be a very nice time-saving trick but doesn't work as far as I can see in 2009.

[patricks]

Not sure about fascia sweep, but I know for a fact that Revit has never allowed gutter sweeps on anything other than a perfectly flat roof eave edge, i.e. either the edge of a flat roof, or edges that are slope-defining and are flat themselves.

*edit* just checked, and I applied a roof fascia sweep to a gable roof edge just fine in 2009, exactly like I have always done. Gutters still can only go on flat, non-sloping edges.

[ws]

Thanks, I could never remember until I tried it whether it was fascia or gutter sweeps that worked and so I guess it was always fascia sweeps.

It still works fine on the regular edges of roofs but until this release it also worked on hips and ridges which was very handy (see attached) - you just changed the profile to a ridge tile and it zipped around the roof...

Now in RAC 2009 I have to create a sweep and pick a path for the profile manually.

Maybe they are excising all the non-standard tricks ? ;)

[patricks]

Oops, didn't notice the part about hips and ridges. Yeah I see what you mean, and no it doesn't allow it anymore.

I never used that trick before, as I've never done a clay tile roof, but I can certainly see where it had been useful.

Wonder what would happen to a project started in 2008 with those sweeps applied, and then upgraded to 2009?

*edit* just tried it, and it comes into 2009 with the fascia sweeos I created along the hips and ridges in 2008. I can select the sweeps, edit their end points or mitering options, even apply more sweeps to the edges of the existing sweeps. However if I delete one, I cannot put it back. That is quite odd.

Reminds me of when the factory disabled the view number on the sheet from legend views in version 9 I think. We already had a legend on a sheet with a number in our template, and when we upgraded the template, the legend remained on the sheet with the number, but when the view title was selected, the number could not be changed. If the legend was deleted then re-placed on the sheet, it came in with no number at all.

[ws]

Wonder what would happen to a project started in 2008 with those sweeps applied, and then upgraded to 2009?

I've got lots of them and they upgrade OK and can even be edited in 2009..

but no new ones can be created.

[Andre Carvalho]

Factory, is this a bug or is there any reason why it doesn't work anymore in RAC 2009?

Andre Carvalho

[aaronrumple]

Support request.

In the mean time you can use a line based family. I switched to using this object once it was introduced. Just a couple of days ago I had to put tivoli lighting at 8" oc around the roof and on the ridge. The line based family worked great.....

[ws]

thanks Aaron - I must try that.

From a few things I've noticed I wonder if the different behaviours in some tools is just due to routines being rewritten and so this sort of accidental feature has not been carried over to 2009.

Just one of those things I guess.

[aaronrumple]

...another thingh you might try is copying the same roof up just an inch or so. Then cut away everything but the ridge caps... Goofy, but parametric and it looks good.

Also related, a fascia can still be applied to any model line - on a roof or not. So you could daw linework in the roof and then apply the fasic to those.

[Elmo]

Aaron just further your suggestion about Roof ridges. What I have found out recently from someone else is just copy the roof up and instead of editing the roof just use the opening tool to cut out what you dont need.

[DoTheBIM]

...another thingh you might try is copying the same roof up just an inch or so. Then cut away everything but the ridge caps... Goofy, but parametric and it looks good.

Also related, a fascia can still be applied to any model line - on a roof or not. So you could daw linework in the roof and then apply the fasic to those.
what a pain. Looks like we'll be staying on 2008 as we need this functionality to count/measure hips, ridges, valleys. I suppose we could place a model line as a work around if it's not actually a bug. but i don't look forward to the response from that suggestion because then you have to set all kinds of workplanes before placing the model lines. I sure hope to see that fixed in the very near future.

[Baldwin_4-6-0]

wow, that really stinks.
In 2008 I would put ridge vents on our building, now we cannot use that anymore. :(

Copying a roof up... eek.
That's kind of a cobbed-up way of doing it, I think I'll stay away from that one.

I'm looking forward to SP1.

[jeffh]

I suppose we could place a model line as a work around if it's not actually a bug.

Why do you have to place a model line? You can create an in-place sweep and use the pick line option. Pick the ridge line and pick your profile.

[patricks]

Yeah it would be nice if model lines could be just applied to any edge without having to specify workplanes and such.

Or to just be able to apply fascia sweeps to hips and ridges. ;)

[patricks]

Why do you have to place a model line? You can create an in-place sweep and use the pick line option. Pick the ridge line and pick your profile.

Would you still be able to schedule the lengths with an in-place family like that?

[jeffh]

Would you still be able to schedule the lengths with an in-place family like that?

No it will not let you schedule the length.

[DoTheBIM]

good point. there's "workaround" #2. Still very clunky as you'd need to do a seperate sweep for every break in path you need. and there's too much room for error when your depending on designers to name in place families correctly in order to map them to outsided data for BOM purposes. I'm not even sure I'd get the data out from in place families that I'd need.

[aaronrumple]

Why do you have to place a model line? You can create an in-place sweep and use the pick line option. Pick the ridge line and pick your profile.

Beause in-place anything sucks long term....

(..and Revit doesn't have banking of sweeps like 3ds does for lofts.)

[ws]

thanks again, yes my initial thought was to use another roof copy (I already use that for the slates layer so that they can oversail the structure (i.e. the rafter feet) - why can't roof layers unlock like wall layers?)
but for the moment I've been using Jeffh's suggestion of picking a path for a sweep.

I've just come back from a training day with the reseller on RAC 2009 new features and I mentioned this change in functionality. They're looking into it - which is nice of them... you never know, something might come of it - maybe next week when everyone is back from EMIA techcamp in Paris ;)

[SkiSouth]

Why do you have to place a model line? You can create an in-place sweep and use the pick line option. Pick the ridge line and pick your profile.


Jeff, this needs fixing. Your solution will not miter the joins. 2008 would. Someone missed this one in the upgrade. Steps backward are not what any one wants I would think.

[pjhammond]

I have also have to use model sweep, previously when I used a fascia sweep with a ridge profile the material had a surface pattern of visible vertical model lines.

However with the model sweep option there are no lines visible, this only applies if you pick the path in 3D, I have tried rotating the pattern by 90degrees but stiil doesnt show.

Perhaps somebody can explain why this happens.

One last thing, I always thought that the using Revit would speed up the production drawing process, this is generally the case, until Autodesk throw another spanner in the works and we have spend more time looking for workarounds.

[aaronrumple]

Jeff, this needs fixing. Your solution will not miter the joins. 2008 would. Someone missed this one in the upgrade. Steps backward are not what any one wants I would think.

However what really needs to happen is for Autodesk to be more proactive. There are many basic objects that need to be added into the core of Revit. Hips, ridges, valleys, standing seams shold all be tools available for a roof.

Then there are things like ceiling trim. You can place a sweep on a wall a floor and a roof, but not a soffit or a ceiling? Seems that it would require very little to add this functionality.

[Andrew Dobson]

thanks again, yes my initial thought was to use another roof copy (I already use that for the slates layer so that they can oversail the structure (i.e. the rafter feet) - why can't roof layers unlock like wall layers?)



I second this!

[ntnik]

i digress.......cool (yaris?/toyota...the green auto).....where'd you get it ? do they have jensen healeys?

[ws]

i digress.......cool (yaris?/toyota...the green auto).....where'd you get it ? do they have jensen healeys?

Umm, I'd forgotten - I downloaded it from the subscription site http://www.formfonts.com

I can't tell if there are any cars in the free downloads section as I get automatically logged in but it would be worth a look.

They are probably Sketchup models 'converted' to .rfa as Formfonts.com doesn't have a lot of genuine Revit content - it's mostly Sketchup stuff.

[Wes Macaulay]

I'm going to create a support request for this bug. Thanks for pointing it out!

[DoTheBIM]

I'm going to create a support request for this bug. Thanks for pointing it out!I filed one too. The more on the train the more attention it will get. All aboard!!!

[steve.70285]

...no longer use the Host Sweep with Fascia or Gutter option to sweep profiles for ridge tiles along hips and ridges?...

Not sure what I'm missing but thought I'd try this on my model even though I use lines based tiles. I placed a fascia on some ridges and hip but made it a cabinet profile just to exaggerate any problems and it worked just fine.

[steve.70285]

I found the difference...a lot of my ridges are manual planes. I tried placing on an automatically generated roof ridge and found the same problem.

[patricks]

Confirmed, a generic line-based family can be placed on hips and ridges!

Well actually, it goes on the edge of a work-place defined by one face of the roof.

I think you could get it to work if you had a profile nested in your line-based family, and then set up a parameter to control the angle rotation of the profile within the family.

[Chad Smith]

While 2009 has some nice additions, it really has taken two steps back in other aspects.

I've only just come across this new limitation today, and can't understand why they have taken a feature away, without providing a replacement one. This is just craziness.

Now, off to file that support request.

[Wes Macaulay]

I don't think it's a programmed limitation -- it's more likely something that got broken...

[Eric Stewart]

I have reported this bug long ago. Picking a path for a sweep will not allow a surface pattern to be displayed.


I have also have to use model sweep, previously when I used a fascia sweep with a ridge profile the material had a surface pattern of visible vertical model lines.

However with the model sweep option there are no lines visible, this only applies if you pick the path in 3D, I have tried rotating the pattern by 90degrees but stiil doesnt show.

Perhaps somebody can explain why this happens.

One last thing, I always thought that the using Revit would speed up the production drawing process, this is generally the case, until Autodesk throw another spanner in the works and we have spend more time looking for workarounds.

[mcaddc]

I also played around with this situation and can now comment on a suitable workaround.

If you draw each roof face separately using lines inside "Roof By Footprint", etc, you will find that the roof edge ridges now become selectable, and so, placing a ridgecap using the "Host Sweep" "Roof Fascia" is now just as easy as it was in the earlier Revit versions. ie, You can also change mitre options etc.

Hope this info helps!

[ws]

Could you possibly elaborate a bit on this please - I can't seem to get it to work on hips and ridge resulting from sketching a roof by footprint with lines.

thanks.

[DoTheBIM]

If you draw each roof face separately using lines inside...While I knew I could do this, I hesitated to suggest it, becuase... who wants to draw each face of a 8000 sq ft home with 50 corners. when you didn't need to just a month ago. This work around introduces a lot of room for errors. like having dupplicate fascia on the same hip, ridge or valley. a very disconnected roof if something in the design changes. Definately a viable workaround though if the drawbacks don't create a bigger problem.

[ws]

Ah, so that is what it's about, thanks.

No, I wouldn't be too keen either on doing it that way unless I had to, but it's worth bearing in mind.

[mcaddc]

Agreed, on a more complex roof, it would be a very drawn out process to construct each roof face separately. I can only hope that the next service pack of revit will fix this issue.

With more complicated roofs, it may be easier to draw the roof plan lines from within autocad, and then import the roof lines over into your floor plan model. It would be much easier to then pick the lines instead of drawing them separately to form each roof panel.

[DoTheBIM]

With more complicated roofs, it may be easier to draw the roof plan lines from within autocad, and then import the roof lines over into your floor plan model. It would be much easier to then pick the lines instead of drawing them separately to form each roof panel.
Before doing that with AutoCAD, I'd consider drawing one complex roof. and then simply model the indvidual faces via picking the lines from the complex roof, and after all the planes are modeled you then could delete the one complex roof... and be left withe same result without the use of another program. And it may be a bit complicated to get the roof plan right in AutoCAD (for some people) with multi pitch conditions.

[Chad Smith]

I don't have the '09 update installed yet, but can anyone confirm if this has been put back in? Autodesk Support informed me a few weeks back that it was going back in for this update.

[mbalsom]

Yes Chad its fixed. Well mine is working !!!!

Mark

[ws]

Yes - it works :)

Made my day that.

thanks for pointing it out and cheers to the Revit developers :beer:

[Chad Smith]

Good to hear. The update would be worth it for just that alone.
Currently downloading update now.

[DoTheBIM]

This is great. This was the one major thing holding me back from upgrading. I was just installing now and thought I browse the forums a little and saw this thread at the top of the list. It was a joy to know that I wasn't wasting my time installing the update just to see if this was fixed.

Thanks for getting this fixed factory.

[Baldwin_4-6-0]

This is a good thing....:) we are very pleased