Stucco joints - best practice

[ron.sanpedro]

The quick answer is a Model Line, on a Lines subcategory of Stucco Control joint or the like. This will track with the wall, and the ends can be locked to perpendicular walls, etc. And it can be in a Design Option while the wall is in the main model.

The more complex answer is a 2 point, wall hosted family. Now I can schedule and total the joints, as well as control it graphically, and even turn it off. But being wall hosted means I can't have the control joints in a Design Option and the wall in the main model, correct? I suspect I will need at least two or three Design options for a while, and the walls themselves will be changing while the jointing is played with, so having three copies of the entire building skin just to play with control joints won't work.

The most complex answer of course is a swept reveal, which offers niceties like breaking at a door and such, but this is a site with 8 buildings, upwards of 50 exterior doors and windows on each building, and control joints at every fenestration corner. We could be talking hundreds of reveals per building, all brought together in a single site model for presentation. Ugh! And again, no Design Options without the wall also being in the option. Correct?

So, are my Design Option assumptions correct? This seems like a bug to me, or at least a failure of Revit to "Work like architects think", and also a suggestion that Model lines are the only option until the design settles down. Anyone have any thoughts or comments? Anyone been down this road?

Thanks,
Gordon

[patricks]

Are you sure a wall reveal can't be added to a design option? I would think that it could be...

[ron.sanpedro]

Are you sure a wall reveal can't be added to a design option? I would think that it could be...

As Revit says, "A sweep in a design option cannot be hosted by an element in the Main Model.". So you are stuck duplicating the entire exterior skin, with all the doors and windows, to explore how the stucco is broken up. Ick!

Gordon

[twiceroadsfool]

Ive had trouble with that aspect of Design Options as well... And when i posted about it, everyone said i was crazy. So.... youre crazy. :)

Line Based wont cut at fenestration... Wall Hosted will require the Walls in the option...

Ugh, for now i guess id go with model lines too. :(

[patricks]

Model lines will look fine and work fine in every case except for rendering, or if you need the reveals to show up in a large scale wall section. But hopefully you'll have the joints in their final location before you start doing large-scale detail sections.

[sccbrown]

I've found adding lines to my window and door families actually works well. I make them stretchable and visiblity off and on so I can show them or not.

[patricks]

I've found adding lines to my window and door families actually works well. I make them stretchable and visiblity off and on so I can show them or not.

He needs the reveals to be part of design options, so he would still have to include the windows in the design option (if they're not already) to make that work.

[sbrown]

Yep, the windows would have to be design options. Design options are tough. We have a condo project that the diff. between two building types is all the molding profiles, all the door styles and trims. We have had to make it 2 sep buildings because you would have a nightmare with duplicating all the walls to have the multiple types of doors and trims.

[SkiSouth]

Here's (http://forums.augi.com/showpost.php?p=548815&postcount=5)a family I use when this need arises. It is a face based joint. Place it (sometimes you have to place it in a 3d view then move it in plan/elevation). You can vary width, depth and drag the length. It was an family created to answer a specific problem, but it works fine both in floors and walls. Renders well. Probably too simple for your complex situation though.

[luigi]

Generally, if they are not to be rendered, it is prudent to have a line, rather than a reveal or special family...I've used both, but the actual reveal only when I needed to render the project (if I didn't add them later in photoshop :)

I would suggest though to create a line, in a Line based family (Start from a generic model line based template, and just add a model line (of the "Stucco Joint", or CJ object style)...
Then you would add it like SkiSouth's component (which works great, and have used it on my projects...thanks Ski) but it would be much lighter than the actual reveal, and it will be schedulable (is that a word?)

Hopefully this helps,

Luigi

[atbergma]

What about this crazy idea? -

Omit the exterior finish layer of your wall. Model the stucco as a curtain wall with thin stucco panels and thinner and (very) narrow mullions. (I'd offset these as appropriate so you could use the wall exterior face as the CW baseline).

Since your joints coincide with the opening edges, the openings can simply be swapped for the "system empty panel". To have the right parts to begin with, I start with a a rule-based curtain wall type and then change it to the default "Curtain Wall 1" to unpin all the grids, mullions, and panels.

No dependency on the wall itself (for design options).
Prettier than model lines.
You create a bunch at once as opposed to reveals or line-based families.
The "reveal" mullions are schedulable. (now it's a word)

I thought this might be too heavy, but in my experiment it actually felt fairly flexible and light. (see attached)

[twiceroadsfool]

Another in-place family narrowly avoided.


Best. Signature. EVAR. :)

I think what he is trying to avoid is having to put any variation of the skin, in his design options. I didnt DL your file and check it out, but while the Curtain system is not dependant on the wall, dont you need the entire Curtain Wall in the DO to alter it? Or just the particular mullions and panels?

[atbergma]

Yes, the whole curtain wall would have to be part of the design option, but the main wall and all of its inserts would not. There would be parts of the system that that are common to all options (locations of doors and windows) so I guess that's the down side. (Move a main model door - have to edit all options to match).

[cganiere]

Try this one.