Phasing naming conventions

[tim.101799]

I just wanted some feedback as to how users name there phases. Currently based on the recomendation of our implimentation consultant we number phased (phase 1, phase 2 and so on). If the project has existing conditions they get put on phase 1 and new construction goes on phase 2. If it is a new building the new construction goes on phase 1. The logic was that when a project is complete, the model can be clean up a little and reused for the next project. A new phase would be added say phase 3, and all work before it on phase 1 and phase 2 would be considered existing. This concept makes complete sense to me and the few others in my office that have been using revit on projects for a couple of years. But we recently just trained the rest of the office and are trying to get them up to speed. For the most part, all of these new users don't grasp the current phase system we have in place. They have asked why we just don't name the phases 'existing' and 'new'? I guess we could name them that way and when and if we start another project the 'new' phase could be renamed to something else and a new 'new' phase added for the current project.

Do my ramblings make sense?


Tim

[Steve_Stafford]

As a consultant I sometimes find that things I've said are a personal preference become "the way" instead of simply me discussing different choices.

In your example I prefer what the phases are called in the stock templates, Existing and New Construction. I prefer them that way because people understand them, they are familiar, "old friends" so to speak.

Phase 1 and so on aren't exactly unfamiliar terms but when used in a new/existing construction project they don't "fit" as naturally. As David Conant once said to me, "Steve, language is hard"...if your users are saying why not use Existing and New...I'd defer to them, it's an easy compromise.

[Firmso]

I just wanted some feedback as to how users name there phases. Currently based on the recomendation of our implimentation consultant we number phased (phase 1, phase 2 and so on). If the project has existing conditions they get put on phase 1 and new construction goes on phase 2.
Tim

Just curious. What phase do you put Demolished elements ?

[Steve_Stafford]

Just curious. What phase do you put Demolished elements ?The way Revit is wired you don't put them in a phase, you demo them during a phase. In his case existing stuff would go in Phase 1 and they would demolish things in Phase 2. Revit displays the contrast according to the phase created and phase demolished parameters. If demolished is set to a later phase than created that defines demolished. If they are the same phase then the element is regarded as temporary.

So as Chris Zoog likes to say, "Demo isn't a phase". At least not in Revit's view.

[tim.101799]

As a consultant I sometimes find that things I've said are a personal preference become "the way" instead of simply me discussing different choices.

In your example I prefer what the phases are called in the stock templates, Existing and New Construction. I prefer them that way because people understand them, they are familiar, "old friends" so to speak.

Phase 1 and so on aren't exactly unfamiliar terms but when used in a new/existing construction project they don't "fit" as naturally. As David Conant once said to me, "Steve, language is hard"...if your users are saying why not use Existing and New...I'd defer to them, it's an easy compromise.

Thanks for the fees back. After thinking about it I am going to change our phases back to the more conventional & comfortable 'Existing' & ' New'.


My next issue is how much phase set up should I do for users in the template file. In the past only a few of us used Revit and we were all capable of seeting up our views & phase filters as needed to suit the project. Most of our newly trained staff are confussed by this and have asked that I set up views in the template for existing, demo & construction pre-set to the correct pahse and phase filter. On the one hand I agree that having this set up in the template file would speed things up for users. But on the other hand users will never learn how to do this if it is built into the template file. Also from past experience with CAD, when I have tried to create all encompassing templates to speeed up work flow users forget how to think for themselves. They forget that a template is just a starting point for the project and will not include everything they need. Next I will be asked to pre-load a slew of typical details into the template file and so on.

[dhurtubise]

I was once told that phase filter are a point in time, the time being the Phase. I've always stick to that for training or making people understand.

[dbaldacchino]

When training users to understand how phasing works, I find it valuable to rename the phases to something generic so they focus on what things really are, instead of the familiar "Existing" and "New Construction". I typically start at Phase 3 and go all the way to Phase 7 on purpose, to emphasize the fact that what you're seeing is a moving timeline, with each phase defining a number of days/weeks/months/years. I think when you make things more generic such as changing the phase name, it is easier to grab their attention and direct it to the important points you're trying to make. I use these various phases to then illustrate how Revit classifies each object as Existing, New, Demolished or Temporary depending on when they were created etc. Phase filters are not a moving timeline....they're just instructions to tell Revit what color paint to use for the individually classified objects. Each phase filter is a "color scheme".

As Steve said, once they understand the system, naming can change to whatever makes sense for each particular project. We typically also keep the 2 stock phases in our template. We do however add a number of phase filters. I prefer to name them as follows:

Existing (OV) + New (BC)
Existing (OV) + Demo (OV)
New (BC) + Temporary (OV)
Existing (BC) + Demo (OV) + New (OV)
etc........

This convention makes it clear what the phase filter will do without having to take a trip to the Phasing dialog box to see the real settings for that filter (OV = Overridden, BC = By Category). I wish Revit gave us the option to name them automatically this way!

Since you can merge phases, all you'd need to do is merge the 2 phases into one, name that as "Existing" and create a new phase called "New Construction".

[Firmso]

"Demo isn't a phase". At least not in Revit's view

Oh, but it is.
Settings>Phases

[jeffh]

"Demo isn't a phase". At least not in Revit's view

Oh, but it is.
Settings>Phases

No DEMOLISHED is not a phase. It is a potential "state" an object can have. Any object can exist in any one of 4 possible "states". Existing, New, Demolished, or Temporary. The state assigned to an object is related to the phase it was created in and the "state" assigned to the current view.

For example something if something created in Phase 1 is seen in a view assigned Phase 1 that object will be assigned the "state" NEW.

When that same object is seen in a view assigned to Phase 2, that object will be assigned the "state" EXISTING.

If you choose to use the demolish tool on the object, Then from that phase forward it will be assigned the "state" DEMOLISHED.

If you create an object and demolish it in the same phase the object wil be assigned the "state" TEMPORARY.

[truevis]

Having a Revit phase named "Demo" (or similar) is not needed and just confuses people. I always teach not to call a phase that.

[patricks]

I think the phasing strategy should depend on what the project will potentially consist of. Our office usually works on either new or renovation projects, but most of the time there is no certainty of work to be deemed a separate phase at some point in the future. The client may want the option to expand in the future, but at the time we work on the project, it is not a certainty. For that reason, the stock Existing and New Construction phases work fine for most everything.

Now if it was known ahead of time that certain work would have to be started and completed before other work could progress, then more phases would certainly be the answer. This could be helpful for large renovation projects such as hospitals, where typically work is done in a certain area and finished before work starts in another area. For that case, I would probably do Existing, Phase 1, Phase 2, Phase 3, and so on...

Now if we had a client come back to us and wanted us to do more work on a project we had previously produced in Revit, I would probably go about it this way:

1. Open original model with Existing and New phases and Save As to a new project file.
2. Change the name of New Construction to Phase 1.
3. Create a new phase called Phase 2.
4. Change any views to Phase 2, showing Previous + New. This makes any previous work display as existing (we use a solid gray fill), because of course it's already there.
5. Make sure new views are always set to Phase 2, showing Previous + New.
6. Use the demolition hammer tool while in a view set to Phase 2 in order demolish any objects created in the previous phase(s).

This way, I don't have to go through and change any objects already in the model to a different phase. Setting up the views for the next phase is simply a matter of changing the phase of that particular view. And of course demolition occurs as a part of phase 2. It is not some separate, interstitial phase.

[Brandon_Pike]

We work with large retail stores and we have several phases setup for them:

1.) Existing Conditions
2.) Existing Conditions - Demo (se we can have a seperate demo plan)
3.) Exterior Shell - New Construction
4.) Exterior Shell - Construction Administration (for addendums, rfi's, etc)
5.) Interior Fit-Up - New Construction
6.) Interior Fit-Up - Construction Administration (for addendums, rfi's, etc)
7.) Future (work to be completed at a later date)

One question...currently we show all phases int he project browser, we would like to show only the current phase (not to confuse the users) but when sorting and filtering the project browser by phase, has anyone come across the issue of when filtering by more than one phase (phase = Phase) the browser does not show any phases at all or am I missing a something?

Thanks,

[carlosb.101393]

I work for a Design Build Residential firm and 90% of our projects are remodels, and I have on our revit template 3 phases, As Built, Demolition, and New, It is really helpful because all the drawings are consistent, and I think Demolition Phase is more important for us than As Built, because we can quantify for pricing and show all the items that are going down, even with 3D views for our crews on the field makes the job easier, and subs for understanding the job better. I think the phase set up depends on your needs and the type of work you do, I believe commercial vs residential work it is really different with completely different needs for project setup on the templates, office procedures and drawing detailing.

[rkitect]

Oh, but it is.
Settings>Phases

Yeah, if you have "Demolished" as a phase in this dialogue, then someone added a phase called Demolished in your template or the burrent project you are looking in. Out of the box, there is no such Phase as Demolished.

If you DO have a phase called Demolished, then it is not the state of an object that Revit sees as Demolished. For instance, if you look in an object's properties, you'll see there is a parameter "Phase Demolished." The value type for this parameter is a Phase. Demolition can happen at any phase of a project.

[patricks]

bwp and Carlos:

Why do you have separate Demolition phases? You do realize that by having that separate phase, an object could be set to Created on the Demolition phase, as well as demolished on that phase.

You say you need to show separate demolition plans. You can easily accomplish this by setting a few to your current construction phase, and changing the filter to Show Previous + Demo. That will show existing objects to remain, and existing objects to be demolished in your current construction phase, and nothing else. No new objects will be shown.

By having a separate Demo phase, your phase filters will no longer work correctly. If you have existing to remain objects, and then demolished objects set to Phase Demolished: Demo phase, then there is really no way to show a demolition plan other than to set the plan to your current construction phase, and Show Previous + Demo, which would then negate the point of having the Demolition phase. If you set the view phase to Demo, and Show Previous + Demo, then your demolished objects will not display. If you change it to Show Previous + New, then your demolished objects will display with no graphic overrides (as if they were new objects).

I supposed you could set up a new filter along with your Demolition phase to show previous objects as overriden for Existing, and then new objects as overriden for the current phase (Demolition). But then you run into the problem of having existing objects created on the demolition phase to get them to show correctly graphically.

This is why, at least in my mind, it's important to use phasing as originally intended. We have our graphic overrides set up so that existing to remain shows as solid gray, and demolished shows with dashed lines when a view is set to Phase: New Construction and the filter is set to Show Previous + Demo.

[carlosb.101393]

Thanks for your observations Patricks, yes we do realize you can create objets on the demo phase, but we do not need to, is just demo phase, for us works fine to organize the project browser by phase, so all of our drawings show on the phase we want. So there are pros and cons, the other pro for us is that room name is easier if the rooms serve different purpose from demolition phase to new construction phase.