Groups...how many is too many?

[MTristram]

I have just come across a project within the office which has 210 Detail groups, this is not including individual instances.

Does anyone consider this excessive? What are the implications on the model if they remain? I need to gather some information before I go to the team and question why they have so many.

In the past we have tried to avoid using detail and model groups as they seemed an inefficient way of creating a model. This particular project is a large scale hotel and the detail groups consist of some of the following:

Bathroom layouts (i.e linework not modeled)
Building outline below (can understand this one as they have drawings at different scales, but saying that they could have used model lines...
Lines representing retaining walls
Text for each level that is repeated at different scales, this includes room text (not room labels - why I hear you ask...I'm asking the same) and general notation.
And they appear to have used detail information to create their elevations as opposed to using the model and materials....??

Any supporting information on the impact to a model with this number of detail groups, if any, would be greatly appreciated.

[tomnewsom]

Yuck. Sounds like someone trying to make Revit work like autocad :(

[patricks]

yup, sounds like they're completely missing the point of Revit, and either don't know how or don't want to use the proper tools to create the construction documents.

You should probably look into see that whoever is working on that project has had proper Revit training, or at least some experience working in Revit the "right" way.

[sbrown]

Great time to have a lunch and learn and go thru each group and what could/should have been done.

[twiceroadsfool]

I see the issues youve posted in your thread, and the excessive use of groups as two very different animals. We use a LOT of groups, as most of our work is prototypical both ind esign and in layout.

Its not uncommon for one of our projects to have 100 or so Group definitions, with literally hundreds of them placed. Heck, i can think of one group in particular that i know is placed 200 times, at least.

The other items you mentioned, i agree with everyone else. Time to get them out of the *2d way of thinking...*

[Simon.Whitbread]

WAAY too excessive! Although model groups are preferential to detail. Especially if you want to export them to become linked files.

Couple of questions regarding this though...

1. Are these NAMED groups (ie: Room names, Retaining etc)?
2. WHY is text being used instead of TAGS? Users should be able to create their own basic families.

The excessive use of detail lines and groups will have an impact on your model. And is the most inefficient way of working. As an example of what you could do to raise the efficiency of this model...

Bathroom layouts - Create the fittings (bath, sink, toilet) as families, even if they are only 2D. GROUP these as a MODEL group, which can then be repeated elsewhere. the fittings can be tagged for notation and scheduling.

Building outline below - Set the visibility to have an underlay, use the LINEWORK tool to apply a hidden (or whatever) line type. Turn off the underlay.

Text for each level - What happened to TAGGING? do the work ONCE. Have multiple tags if need be, each displaying different parameters, text size (2.5 / 3.5 ).

Detail information for elevations - There can be times when your elevation isn't really represented by that of the model. That being said, try to use the model as much as possible. example: in a bathroom, use the split region tool so different materials can be displayed on a wall surface ( paint / tiling ) see attached

[MTristram]

Thanks for your responses. I am in agreeance (is that a word?) with all of you, I just needed this back up information to send through to the team.

Yes - they have all had Revit Training and we have continual in house learning sessions, just would help if they actually attended, anyway that's another issue entirely.

The elevations in question are more external elevations as it is quite a complex project, however I am not condoning them using this method. I do believe it was/is a temporary solution to get concept documentation out, so hopefully over the next few weeks they'll improve their techniques.

Why they're not utilising rooms is completely beyond me....but will follow this up with the team today. Will look into using the building outline as an underlay, I think part of the issue is the building outline will change from some levels to others.....

[MTristram]

Ignore my last comment in the response above about the building below being different on every level - i just thought about that a little and yeah what you've said makes complete sense.