Revit needs to work better in 3D

[Wes Macaulay]

Revit needs two things:

a move tool that allows specification of X,Y and Z on the Options Bar so you can move objects set distances while working in 3D
Revit should allow movement of objects in a 3D view with respect to a plane chosen using the Plane Selector. Right now, if I set a vertical surface to be my current workplane, I can only move objects around with respect to the floor plane. There is the interesting fact that you CAN move objects in Z in a 3D view, but you have to orient the view to south, east, north or west beforehandI know the Factory did this to prevent users from unintentional movement of objects while editing, but I'm smarter than the people they were thinking about so I think they should change the software to how *I* think :mrgreen:

Of course if I was really smart, I wouldn't be in architecture at all (I'd be in real estate)

[BillyGrey]

I know the Factory did this to prevent users from unintentional movement of objects while editing

I believe a very simple solution would be to provide users a 3d editing "mode" that could be deliberately entered into where work could proceed. It really is such a time burner and frustrating experience to manipulate objects in the xyz.

I was speaking to a group just yesterday that was very interested in all they have heard about Revit. One member who had done his homework asked me a very loaded question that opened up a line of questioning that addressed these very limitations. It was a deal killer.

[iandidesign]

Here's a useful example from ArchiCAD. The context sensitive pet palette lets the user easily choose what kind of move or edit they want. Here you can see an XY move and a wall top stretch. The offset values can be entered into the blue Tracker box. There are other options for rotation, Z axis and slope. This scheme doesn't fit Revit's UI but functionally it works well.

[dpasa]

Revit needs two things:

a move tool that allows specification of X,Y and Z on the Options Bar so you can move objects set distances while working in 3D
Revit should allow movement of objects in a 3D view with respect to a plane chosen using the Plane Selector. Right now, if I set a vertical surface to be my current workplane, I can only move objects around with respect to the floor plane. There is the interesting fact that you CAN move objects in Z in a 3D view, but you have to orient the view to south, east, north or west beforehand

Basic and very useful features that we all need!

[ejburrell67787]

I'm not so sure about the issue here - after all is it easy enough to use the element properties to raise the insertion level or offset above/below level when working in 3d. I haven't found it a limitation so far anyway!

What would be very very useful though is the tape measure tool working in 3d!!!! :p It could report a true length and the x/y/z offsets.

[adb]

Absolutely agree that this is a needed feature. Anyone that is use to working in 3DS knows the convenience of such a tool.

Oh, and your comment about not having it to keep people from accidentally moving objects.....if the factory was so concerned with that they would never have had the option to press+drag. How many times have your users tried to do a crossing window and moved God knows what? A cursed feature that is unchecked on all my users boxes.

[Wes Macaulay]

I'm not so sure about the issue here - after all is it easy enough to use the element properties to raise the insertion level or offset above/below level when working in 3d. I haven't found it a limitation so far anyway!

What would be very very useful though is the tape measure tool working in 3d!!!! :p It could report a true length and the x/y/z offsets.
I think what I want to be able to do is set a vertical workplane in my view, and then snap in 3D to move an object without digging into a dialog box, which can slightly break the train of thought.

Granted that this is not a deal-killer -- it just makes Revit look like a 2.5D program sometimes.

[twiceroadsfool]

I dont even want to have to set a workplane, but i know thats wishful thinking. I like the smartcursor thing in max, where it will "snap" to the three origins. Sketchup does something similar. I know this is a much more complicated program, but it would be nice to hit the move button, and to be able to go any which way...

[BillyGrey]

Granted that this is not a deal-killer --

For most of us, no...
For prospective users, it can be. Please re-read my post.

I also totally agree with Aaron's take on how SU edits elements.

[twiceroadsfool]

I still think its not a deal breaker for anyone. If youre judging the superiority of one tool vs another simply by which view it lets you edit/move things in.... er... have fun with that. I cant wait to see them coordinatng drawing sets in sketchup. Even archicad.. eesh.

[BillyGrey]

O.K., I concede.
What I went through never happened by proxy...

What I said in my initial post was that this subject was used as a springboard into a line of questioning, which broke the deal.

Whats up with the contrary responses?

More important than that is the issue at hand, not back peddling or challenges to issues raised here.

[twiceroadsfool]

Oh, it was just meant as an offhand conversation, certainly nothing mean to validate the lack of such tools in the program. I only brought it up becuase it still pains me that some people are very close minded about what moer complex programs can and cant do.

And id hardly call it backpeddling, i dont work at Autodesk, so Revit isnt my baby. :)

The two biggies that i would love: is being able to do some level of work in a camera view (perspective), and being able to move things in axon with all three axis' available... :)

[p.alvito]

More 3-dimensional maneuverability would be a very welcomed feature indeed. How can they implement a free 3-axis positioning system, and mantain the same level-based BIM database however, is beyond me. Also, we can never forget that Revit is not truly 3D, but rather 2.5D, since everything in it is based on 2D shapes (points, lines and areas).

[Wes Macaulay]

Well, Revit really is 3D -- but it's 3D for Dummies.

[Scott D Davis]

since everything in it is based on 2D shapes (points, lines and areas).

Isn't any modeling program based on 2D shapes and points, lines and faces? Any extrusion, loft, sweep, revolve, blend etc in any program is created by drawing a shape or multiple shapes and the computer "builds" the 3D object.

Autocad: draw shape, then extrude
Max: draw shape then pull up to extrude shape, apply modifiers to tweak shape.
Sketchup: draw shape and then push pull the 2D faces, points, lines to make shape.

[angelo]

Some of the above posts are missing the point IMHO - relying on 3D planes to do pretty much any sort of precise 3D modeling it painful and slow. Yeah, if I want to orient a view exactly perpendicular to a particular angle, a working plane if fine. However, if I want to work fast and precise in an axon, or god help me, a perspective view, the program should be able to handle it.

Scale is something that falls flat when we get people into Revit who are trying to actually design something vs. document it. The new navigation tools are going to help a lot, but we still need an accessible and agile way to edit in 3D.

[ron.sanpedro]

Isn't any modeling program based on 2D shapes and points, lines and faces? Any extrusion, loft, sweep, revolve, blend etc in any program is created by drawing a shape or multiple shapes and the computer "builds" the 3D object.

Autocad: draw shape, then extrude
Max: draw shape then pull up to extrude shape, apply modifiers to tweak shape.
Sketchup: draw shape and then push pull the 2D faces, points, lines to make shape.

I suspect those that are limited to 2D input devices are also limited to 2D shapes. If Revit could use a Spaceball as input, maybe we could do true 3D shapes. But as long as you limit the input tool to a 20 year old 2D only technology, you are certain to also cripple your model. Then again, maybe Autodesk is just waiting for a hologram I/O device. ;)
Then again, true 3D modeling with a slow graphics subsystem and severely limited processor and ram capabilities is probably a good thing. A user can out model Revit's capabilities pretty quickly already, I don't know that I want it to be easier until it is also less painful.

Gordon

[iandidesign]

I suspect those that are limited to 2D input devices are also limited to 2D shapes. If Revit could use a Spaceball as input, maybe we could do true 3D shapes. But as long as you limit the input tool to a 20 year old 2D only technology, you are certain to also cripple your model.
I'd guess people just want better creation and editing of the existing object types more than freeform stuff. Other programs have proven that working with these mostly rectilinear forms in 3D can be handled quite deftly with common input devices. Not that I wouldn't welcome support for more sophisticated tools, but there is no reason to wait for that to experience marked improvement.

Then again, true 3D modeling with a slow graphics subsystem and severely limited processor and ram capabilities is probably a good thing. A user can out model Revit's capabilities pretty quickly already, I don't know that I want it to be easier until it is also less painful.
Huh :?