Slab Edge Joins - 2009 Issue

[rdmanns]

In 2008 and previous we've always been able to attach slab edges to floor slabs with no problems by hosting them to the top edge of the slabs. Slabs were structured so that items such as vapor barriers or gravel would have a priority substrate or less and only the slab itself is "structure". When joined the slab edge cuts through everything and meshed correctly with the slab.

In 2009 this no longer works. All materials with any assigned priority override and cut through the slab edge. Anyone else come across this? I've searched the forums but no luck.

I've even opened older projects from 2008 to run a few tests. The existing slab edges work properly, but if I remove then re-add the segment, the 2009 bug seems to set in.

[sfaust]

hmm. You're right, that's not cool, Fix it please factory!

[Andre Carvalho]

I think in 2009 they worked the slab edge function to automatically join the slab when inserted. In Revit 2008 you had to do it manually. Also, now in 2009 the slab is cutting the slab edge it is hosting. In Revit 2008, the slab was cut by the slab edge.

But anyway, the 2009 help still says that the slab edge should cut the host element (as it did on 2008.)

From the help:
When you join geometry in the Family Editor, you create a union between different shapes. In a project, however, one of the joined elements actually cuts the other according to the following scheme:

Walls cut columns.
Structural elements cut host elements (walls, roofs, ceilings, and floors).
Floors, ceilings, and roofs cut walls.
Gutters, fascias, and slab edges cut other host elements. Cornices do not cut any elements.Andre Carvalho

[patricks]

What the OP is saying is that another slab used to show a gravel fill layer below the slab is cutting the slab edge.

In 2008, I can draw a slab, apply a slab edge turndown, and then draw another slab with a gravel cut pattern below the concrete floor slab. When I join geometry between the turndown and the gravel layer, the gravel layer is cut at an angle to match the underside of the slab edge turndown, just as it should. It doesn't matter if the gravel fill slab's core layer is set to Structure or Substrate or Finish, the slab edge still cuts the gravel fill slab object.

Now in 2009, it seems that my gravel fill slab object is cutting the slab edge turndown. It doesn't matter if the gravel fill core is set to Structure or Finish or whatever, it always cuts the turn down. So now there is no way to get a properly tapered gravel layer to match the taper of the turn down, without some VERY complicated and time-consuming use of in-place void sweeps, or so it seems at this point.

[sbrown]

What if you build the gravel into the floor slab assembly?

[rdmanns]

Same thing. Any slab with several layers of materials won't work properly. I haven't tried to create individual slabs of materials, but I don't think that's something we should have to do since it worked properly before 2009.

[sfaust]

yeah, there isn't a good way to work it now it seems. This is not an acceptable situation, and I'm sure (or at least really hope) it's a bug. I did notice the automatic join which is nice, but the edge should be dominant. I filed a support request and would encourage others to do the same...

[patricks]

Wow that's crazy. Even a Substrate layer of gravel built into the floor slab will cut through the slab edge, even if I set the slab edge vertical offset so that it meets with the concrete Structure core layer of the slab.

Not cool.

[patricks]

I filed a support request, and included a sample RVT file which illustrates the problem.

They had better not tell me to do in-place void cuts as a workaround. :mad:

[HMcN]

While it doesn't seem that big, this change seems to be a big headache. Both thickened slab edges as well as items attached, such as pour stops now are cut by the slab. Similarly, I'm finding that when a roof deck is used (no concrete), the outline of concrete is still there, even though its not hatched... so where I used to get deck that would extend to the steel cantilever distance, now I also get the concrete border line extending too, rather than being invisible. Is anyone else having those issues?

To me, it seems... whats the point in modelling a slab edge, if it doesn't cut the slab the way it should.... its like a step back as far as the modelling of the building is concerned...

Also, has anyone heard any resolution from Autodesk.... seems like a bad change idea if it was meant to be that way... otherwise.... program update?

[ford347]

I'm going to file a support request as well just so up the amount of attention on the issue, but has anyone got a response back in any support requests regarding this issue?

This is Asinine. So much work around in all kinds of views because of this?

Josh

[ford347]

Just thought I'd post the response to my support request for this issue, doesn't really help, but at least we have a response?

Josh

Unfortunately this is a known issue in 2009. Prior to 2009 slab edges would cut their hosts, and in the new version, the host cuts the slab edge. Some other users have also complained about this behavior and the development team is investigating what the next steps should be. In the meantime, the workaround they suggest is to use a detail component in the slab profile to represent the proper layers.
I will link this case to the development team's research and will send you an update when they have more information. I would also suggest leaving feedback about the issue to the Revit Product Managers at http://www.autodesk.com/feedback
I am going to set this case to a 'Pending Change Request' status. What that means is that the case will remain open and linked to the development team's notes, and I will inform you once a resolution has been implemented. You may receive a survey once the status is set, but please keep in mind, the case is not actually closed and I will let you know when you can expect to see the issue resolved. Please let me know if you have any questions.

[lesmorrison892151]

If this thread is still on-going - the resolution is simple:
Do as stated in tagging the materials as the same type. Then just - MODIFY > JOIN GEOMETRY. Click all around the slab edges and fix to the walls.
Hey Presto - the hardcore is cut away.