2D blocks/xref views for revit

[Martin P]

This one takes a wee bit of following, but it would be good!! honest.

At the moment I use groups when detailing over the top of a view to keep all the detail stuff together, but mainly to allow me to paste the group into another view, this way I know that if I change the detailing lines and filled regions, they will automatically update. the only trouble is as we all know that groups can be a bit fickle, and cause problems.

What I would really like to be able to do, would be to duplicate a view, so that it would always set as underlay and I would not be able to alter model objects in it (alothough I could snap to ALL points, even parts cut at angles). In this view I would add all the detail lines, filled regions, notes, etc that I wanted - this would be the sole purpose of this type of view. I would then like to be able to "xref" for want of a better description the detailing from this view, into other views. The detailing would NOT editable in these views, and I would go back to my detailing view to make changes. It would behave like an imported DWG file.

I know, I can do similar to this with copy and paste - but this will not reflect changes when I edit, AND the detailing is all in "bits" and acts as disjointed objects. And I know I can do it to some extent with groups ( I do now), but they are not really designed for this purpose, I have tried - I often run into problems where Revit will not change a group.

Basically what I want are xrefs - or blocks may be a better description, that are designed for use ONLY with detailing, and not objects - that can be freely, and quickly edited, altered and added to in a view specifically for that purpose. Oh yeah, and white lines and invisible lines would be visible in the view too, so I knew where they were!

This would be my Number one wish if I could get it.

I CAN do it if I use autocad to add the detail in, and link the file.... but I shouldnt have to do that, and there are problems with that method.

[aaronrumple]

This is starting to sound way too much like AutoCAD.

[Martin P]

This is starting to sound way too much like AutoCAD.


This is starting to sound way too much like AutoCAD.

Yes, it does sound like Autocad,,,, so? :wink:

Wblocks and Xrefs are excellent tools.
Revit would be vastly improved to have similar tools for 2D work.

Even plain old Autocad type Blocks would be a huge help (ie I can draw them in place, edit them in place, and save them out if I want) groups are almost there... but we need dedicated 2D tools.

The wish I have posted would take advantange of the fact that Revit has multiple views unlike autocad(unless you count paperspace) So the whole block/xref thing could be improved on with Revit by exploiting that to let you edit them without exploding and overwriting or opening a file. So it would be like Autocad, only better. :shock:

[sbrown]

autocad is great for drafting, I want all its tools, just implemented "revit style"

[Phil Palmer]

My WORST ! nightmare woud be to download and install revit 6.0 and find it totally cluttered with every concivable way possible to draw 2d graphics.

Please dont do it Revit

[Martin P]

My WORST ! nightmare woud be to download and install revit 6.0 and find it totally cluttered with every concivable way possible to draw 2d graphics.

Please dont do it Revit


My WORST ! nightmare woud be to download and install revit 6.0 and find it totally cluttered with every concivable way possible to draw 2d graphics.

Please dont do it Revit

I agree, we dont want loads and loads of different tools or methods, but we definitely need some more useful ones for 2D work. Blocks and xrefs are pretty basic tools in autocad really dont you think? blocks especially I think are a must have for us, groups just dont work properly - there is nothing more upsetting than when you have created a beautifully set up drawing with 2D groups all working like little blocks or xrefs - and then Revit throws some cryptic message about "not changing the group because of blah blah" and you then have to ungroup and work with little bits of details lines and filled regions scattered about all over your views, and they are all completely urelated to anything. It is too "untidy" a method at the moment, and there is no real smart way to do it - groups are so close to doing it, but they arent really designed for use with 2D detail stuff... Surely having blocks/xref type things wouldnt rock the Revit boat too much? :wink: But we would have to do it in Revit style as Scott says, the wish I posted seemed as good as any - have your blocks exploded the whole time in a "block" view - go in and edit, changes are instantly reflected wherever you have placed it, I though it sounded like a really neat idea, and isnt really complex at all. It amazes me any time that 2D comes up people get afraid we are going to end up working as though we are in Autocad, at the moment doing anything 2D feels like working with Microsoft Word :lol: :wink: somewhere in between would be nice......

(ohhhh ohhh, I'll get fans for that comment I bet!) :twisted:
]

[Scott Hopkins]

Martin

I think you are on the right track. However, rather than making a new Xref or Block tool, I have faith that the Revit team can simple improve the Group tool to include some of the improved functionality that you are suggesting. I think this would keep the AutoCAD haters happy. :wink:

[PeterJ]

Martin

Amn't I not right (as Mrs J says) in thinking that a group is like a block and a component is like a Wblock - in as much as they are used as externals bits brought in or used within the AutoCAD drawing.

So for repetitive 2D detail stuff where are components falling down? I thought most people used external blocks much more than internal ones. Maybe i am missing your point.

P

[sbrown]

I agree, I want simple revit commands, maybe detail groups and model groups. OUr big problem with groups(for detail items, detail lines, etc.) is in worksets. the individual lines are in the view workset, but the group goes to a user workset, screwing everything up. Test it if you have a worksets project and you are detailing and you group some bricks together, then look at that group it is on whatever active workset you were in. NO big deal you may think, but lets say you go onto something else and a diff users copies that group to whatever workset hes on, you get this trail of confused groups and detail components.

[Martin P]

Martin

Amn't I not right (as Mrs J says) in thinking that a group is like a block and a component is like a Wblock - in as much as they are used as externals bits brought in or used within the AutoCAD drawing.

So for repetitive 2D detail stuff where are components falling down? I thought most people used external blocks much more than internal ones. Maybe i am missing your point.

P

When creating these components in Autocad, you can create them in place, in your drawing - with revit detail components have to created "blind" in the family so are a bit hard to do, and unless the are very basic components not much use for an actual detail. So Wblocks are not possible with Revit at the moment, unless you count saving groups......which I have NEVER had work properly yet, and gave up using ages ago.

Groups are the method I use at the moment, problem is they dont work too well. Mostly in that you must add detail lines etc to the group one at a time when editing them (you cant select a window or crossing when adding to groups) - you get all sorts of weird and wonderful error messages, which basically prevent you using them properly if at all - Which I think stems from the fact groups are designed for use with 3D components instead of 2D detail..

[Martin P]

Martin

I think you are on the right track. However, rather than making a new Xref or Block tool, I have faith that the Revit team can simple improve the Group tool to include some of the improved functionality that you are suggesting. I think this would keep the AutoCAD haters happy. :wink:

You are probably right, that would do for me really, but.......

If you look at the original wish I posted, It is simply a group which is "grouped" by being drawn in a specific view that is only for that purpose, rather than being "grouped" by picking and added to - so you dont have to Edit it, you just go in to the view and add or remove from it and it is edited and added to that way.... or instead of opening a separate family and editing that - you just draw in this view, and that is how you edit...... that is all it was!! I still think it would be a very very good working method..... and take out a load of steps, they can call it a group view if it helps :lol:


groups/xrefs detail components/blocks - I suppose its a bit like calling "layers" "categories" and saying Revit doesnt use layers :lol:

Oh well, back on with some grouping for now....

edit group
add to group
pick
pick
pick........
finish group....
"unable to change group because of blah de blah"