Wall joins - Can you tell it to ignore demolished walls?

[3dway]

I have new walls with a join which is very close to the join of some demolished walls. All of the walls, regardless of phase seem to want to try and join each other. If I get the wall join to look right for the new construction, it's doesn't look right in the existing and demo. Is there a way to tell Revit which walls are to join with which walls? The phasing doesn't seem to be much more than a visibility control. I would like it if the new walls ignored the demolished walls when it comes to wall joins. It doesn't make sense that new walls would would try to interact with anything demolished an an earlier phase.

I've tried just about every combination of allow/disallow and taking them apart and trimming them back together...

Is this a wishlist item? Change allow/disallow to join only with -new -demolished -previous etc... Join only with walls that have the same alignemet ie. centerline, exterior face of core.... bla bla bla

[3dway]

Question #2 about wall joins.

How do you get Revit to draw a wall with Zero length of exterior face?

This project has a 45 degree corner. We're demolishing the wall from the corner onward. The new wall is going in at 90 degrees to the demolished wall. Where the angle to the demolished wall measured at the exterior was 225 degrees, it will now be 135 degrees. The wall which is to remain was mitred with the wall which is to be demolished because the only way I could get it to show clean wall joins was with miter. Now when I demolish the wall that was at 225 degress, the remaining wall is cut off at the interior corner along the mitre. I need the new wall to run horizontally, in line with the wall which is to remain, then turn the 135 degree corner. The problem is that this requires the stub of new wall, which is in line with the wall to remain, has zero length of exterior face and Revit won't draw it.

I may have to post images if that wording is too confusing.

[Andre Carvalho]

I have new walls with a join which is very close to the join of some demolished walls. All of the walls, regardless of phase seem to want to try and join each other. If I get the wall join to look right for the new construction, it's doesn't look right in the existing and demo. Is there a way to tell Revit which walls are to join with which walls? The phasing doesn't seem to be much more than a visibility control. I would like it if the new walls ignored the demolished walls when it comes to wall joins. It doesn't make sense that new walls would would try to interact with anything demolished an an earlier phase.

I've tried just about every combination of allow/disallow and taking them apart and trimming them back together...

Is this a wishlist item? Change allow/disallow to join only with -new -demolished -previous etc... Join only with walls that have the same alignemet ie. centerline, exterior face of core.... bla bla bla`

Humm... New walls will try to join existing walls and other new walls as well. New walls won't automatically join demolished walls.

Andre Carvalho

[Andre Carvalho]

Question #2 about wall joins.

How do you get Revit to draw a wall with Zero length of exterior face?

This project has a 45 degree corner. We're demolishing the wall from the corner onward. The new wall is going in at 90 degrees to the demolished wall. Where the angle to the demolished wall measured at the exterior was 225 degrees, it will now be 135 degrees. The wall which is to remain was mitred with the wall which is to be demolished because the only way I could get it to show clean wall joins was with miter. Now when I demolish the wall that was at 225 degress, the remaining wall is cut off at the interior corner along the mitre. I need the new wall to run horizontally, in line with the wall which is to remain, then turn the 135 degree corner. The problem is that this requires the stub of new wall, which is in line with the wall to remain, has zero length of exterior face and Revit won't draw it.

I may have to post images if that wording is too confusing.

Depending on the situation, you will have to create the wall a little bigger and then shape it using voids. It will correct both 2D and 3D representation. If you are just looking after the 2D, then you can use the "Edit Cut Profile" tool to shape you wall in plan.

Andre Carvalho

[tamas]

Think of what happens to an existing wall join when only one of the walls is demolished. I think you agree that the remaining wall is also disturbed. The best way to correctly model this condition is to split the existing (remaining) wall just near the corner and demolish the corner piece together with the other wall. Now, you can rebuild the corner for the new phase without interfering with the exiting join.

Two walls will only try to join if they coexist anywhere in their lifetime.

Unfortunately our wall joins are far from being perfect, so you may actually have run into some of our current limitations. If you sent your file to support, we could see if that is the case.

Tamas

[3dway]

Ok, I'm going to be the first one to admit that I don't know this software, and maybe it is the join between the existing wall and the new wall that is the problem.

It seems reasonable to demolish the corner and build it again. Not how we usually draw it. We usually show the extent of the existing wall to remain and the extent of the new all, and then it's up to the contractor to decide how he executes the actual construction. I feel like I'm going against established conventions to accomodate a deficiency in the software.

I'm having another problem with a demolished door's infill wall. We often demolish up to the side of an opening. I split the wall a the side of the door, dmolished the wall that the door was in, and the door went with it. I'm tring to start a new wall of the corner of the existing that was the side of the door opening. When I try to draw down the new wall, a bit of "infill" wall shows up from nowhere. If I try to delete it, it says that it wants to delete the door (in the existing phase) because the infill wall is somehow related to it.

Thanks again folks. This implementation on a real project is hard. I spent 3 years in school learning AutoCAD and when I got out, I still didn't know how to use it at a professinoal level.... We had 3 days of training on Revit....

[3dway]

I have to apologize that this thread is becoming the vent for my current lack of understanding of revit.

Here is an imabe with a few of the problems I'm having.

I don't like the joins with existing walls. I'd like to stop the core and finishes from cutting into the existing wall. I can do this by diallowing joins and aligning the end of the wall where the walls are square. When it's at an angle, you have not control over the wall end when you disallow joins. It's always square. I sure could use some help with a method for managing this.

Multiple walls joining in one place. I can't get a wall join option that joins the third wall in.

Is there a way to manage whether or not the cores are separated when joining different wall types?

I'm starting to wish for a sketch based wall end manager, the way you can manage profiles.

[Andre Carvalho]

...When it's at an angle, you have not control over the wall end when you disallow joins. It's always square. I sure could use some help with a method for managing this.

As I mentioned on my previous post above,, you can either use a in place void family to cut out the portion of the wall you don't want or use the Edit Cut Profile tool to do it only in plan.

To create the void, go to Modelling > Create > Generic model > give it a name > Void form > Void extrusion > sketch it to accommodate the portion of the wall you want to cut > go to Cut geometry (top of the screen) > select the void and select the wall > Finish family.

If you want the second option, just select the icon at the top of the screen > draw the sketch line as if you were actually cutting the wall and you will see a small arrow indicating the side of the wall you want to keep (you can click and flip that). Once it is done, just finish sketch and it should solve the problem.

I hope it helps,

Andre Carvalho

[3dway]

Ok, I've become somewhat familliar with the edit cut profile tool.

Is there a way to modify the infill wall that Revit puts in when you mark an opening as demolished?

Not only do they not draw the line at the end of the infill wall, but They seem to mess with wall joins in the area.

[Andre Carvalho]

Ok, I've become somewhat familliar with the edit cut profile tool.

Is there a way to modify the infill wall that Revit puts in when you mark an opening as demolished?

Not only do they not draw the line at the end of the infill wall, but They seem to mess with wall joins in the area.

If lines are missing, you can always go to the Drafting menu and draw detail lines...

Andre Carvalho

[3dway]

If lines are missing, you can always go to the Drafting menu and draw detail lines...

Andre Carvalho

To me this is a workaround and it creates the sort of user upkeep that Revit is marketed to reduce/eliminate.

[saeborne]

Hi all,

I'm afraid I am running into this issue as well. Walls that were demolished in a previous phase still seem to impact wall joins in a future phase, if the join condition occurs at the same place.

Please see the attached jpg / rvt model. I've made sure these elements don't exist in the same phase.

Anyone know of a better work around?

Bryan

[Dwane Lindsey]

Hi all,

I'm afraid I am running into this issue as well. Walls that were demolished in a previous phase still seem to impact wall joins in a future phase, if the join condition occurs at the same place.

Please see the attached jpg / rvt model. I've made sure these elements don't exist in the same phase.

Anyone know of a better work around?

Bryan

Pull the existing (vertical) walls up a bit and use the Edit Walls Joins tool, set the ends to Disallow Join, then pull them back down to where they need to be. You may have to do a little cleanup, but this should allow you to get the desired results.

It's not really just the demo walls, it's all the walls trying to cleanup. But, once you set the existing to not allow a join, the new walls will cleanup nicely.

[Dwane Lindsey]

To me this is a workaround and it creates the sort of user upkeep that Revit is marketed to reduce/eliminate.

I've had users use the Unjoin Geometry tool for the infill to get the wall lines to appear instead of drawing lines. This may also help with your cleanup problems. Can't say for certain, but it's worth a shot...

[saeborne]

Pull the existing (vertical) walls up a bit and use the Edit Walls Joins tool, set the ends to Disallow Join, then pull them back down to where they need to be. You may have to do a little cleanup, but this should allow you to get the desired results.

It's not really just the demo walls, it's all the walls trying to cleanup. But, once you set the existing to not allow a join, the new walls will cleanup nicely.

Hi Dwane,

Thanks for the reply. I appears that selectively Disabling some wall joins can clean up some of the situations, but I couldn't get mine to look as clean as yours.

Obviously, this rvt file is not my actual project, but rather a quick test to determine if the demolition phasing tool is realistic for a larger scale project, where we must salvage half of an existing structure. I'm starting to feel that managing all of the wall join conditions would be more difficult than manually coordinating a separate model specifcally for demolition.

Thanks for your help.