Cross Platform Revit Tools

[aleph-null]

I have a question that has puzzled me for a while and I would appreciate an answer from some practitioners of architecture.

I note that in quite a few of the threads in this forum users are asking for tools that are available in Revit Structure and Revit MEP. For example the metal deck profile tool or duct creation tools.

Why is this? Why do architects want tools to do a job that is not theirs? Worse, I doubt that they get paid to do it. I would have thought that this is a good opportunity to tell your RS engineer/drafter that they have to show the metal deck profiling in their drawings because they have the tool and you don't.

I thought that this is a good way to demarcate responsibility (and liability) and reduce already excessive expectations from the architect's shoulders.

[Gadget Man]

...Why is this? Why do architects want tools to do a job that is not theirs? Worse, I doubt that they get paid to do it...

I'll tell you why. In my practice I am more than willing to bend backwards to create better plans, better presentation, better quality work. Money isn't everything. I love what I am doing and pure job satisfaction is much more important to me than money or an hourly rate! Besides, my attitude somehow positively translates to higher income in the long run anyway, because I am much more reliable, competitive, accurate and professional then the next guy, who does just his (or her) job - from "A" to "B".

I will always pick a contractor with an initiative over the one who just does what he's told...

The same works in my business. I don't advertise, yet I have plenty of good and returning clients. And in my mind that's what it's all about... And I don't care if I do just my part of the job or somebody's as well - as long as I do it right everybody is happy and I am sure that I have it done exactly as I wanted it.

I am sorry to say that, but with your attitude I would never hire you to do anything for me. Even if you were the best specialist in the field...

[Chad Smith]

Why is this? Why do architects want tools to do a job that is not theirs?
Simple. Because there are other design/construction companies out there other than architects and Architectural companies. There are companies out there that go far beyond that of an Architect.
The company I used to work for documents about 95% of the entire building in-house by just one drafter/designer. From preliminary design through to construction documents which include Architecturals, Structural (Roof/Wall Steel, Slab and Footing engineering documents), Hydraulic and Landscaping. Like I said, all one drafter.

Just because Autodesk now calls Revit, "Revit Architecture", it's a misnomer to believe that only architects use it.

[Gadget Man]

...Why is this?...

So now you have at least two different reasons :) - from the small operator like myself and from the perspective of a large firm. I am pretty sure that there are several other reasons for this as well...

[iandidesign]

It may be the an architect's job to do initial design even when specialists will be called in, or a project is of a scale that structural and MEP engineers will just provide sketches which the architect will draft (now model) and then have checked, or the model is being built by a conscientious contractor working from 2D plans, or...

I have worked in all these situations and there are a hundred more.

[benmay]

And more obviously, there are plenty of Architects working with other consultants only producing 2D documentation. So to co-ordinate the model you need to build your own structure (which may only be indicative)

I think the structural package has just enough Architectural tools to work well. (I am structure based) But the reverse is more complained about. And we need to forget about site tools! Best leave that to a stand alone package (we have been told before, there will never be a Revit Civil) MEP has a bit of both

I think its really the Architects who are trying to model in Revit and working with 2D consultants that really need more structural tools. But they can always buy a structure license

[anthony.67953]

I agree whole heartedly. I also draw (model) as much as I can. This is the way we know every thing works as planned. I also think Revit should use the previous name Revit Building and include structural and MEP.

[aleph-null]

Fair responses - some better than others - but thanks to everyone who responded.

[Jun Austria]

IWhy do architects want tools to do a job that is not theirs?


Its simple. Before BIM, we approach the design with the basic knowledge on Structure and M/E. This reduced the coordination process between consultant and speed up documentation. Now we have BIM software. That knowledge is now being transferred via software. We incorporate all the "necessary" structural and M/E data that affect my design. And when I transmit that data to other consultant. Its enough for them to start work without having a long meeting. And being the Architect. We stand as the "Project Supervisor". And that position required us to be knowledgeable in all AEC field.

[Alex Page]

Two other reasons I can think of:

1. How do you do realistic rendering if these said 'structural' systems are exposed and arent modelled in the architectural software?

2. Who co-ordinates the different services? Architects do (well..unfortunately we do here anyway) ....so how to we check our model for clashes if we cant model it?

I guess I feel that, as an example, the reasons they they left out structural modelling tools for Architects, they could have left out all the wall tools, other than a really basic wall (with no layers other than core) for Structural Enginneers..ie why would structual engineers need them?

[samov]

Nobody asked my opinion but i'll have a go at it.

My 2 cents...

I think Revit A/S/MEP will eventually become one product in the future... and i mean probably 5-10 years.

Why they broke it apart: well you need to do 3 jobs and have user feedback come from 3 directions so it is easier to manage.

PLUS you get a marketing bonus... The engineer hears the word "structure" and he knows it's for him... so it is easier to sell...
Just look at ALLPLAN (DO IT ALL IN ONE PLACE) and how they are doing... from a maketing point of view... it's ok ... but i've seen their workflow... and it's VERY VERY bad.

Why will it come back in one product... well in the long run... it's architecture ( design it, build it... ) and it has always been one product with 3 or more proffesionals trained separately that HAVE to work for the same goal.

Plus it's all becoming easier to build... I ,an architect, am able to do structural design work from top to bottom in small-medium size projects. And i don't have a problem doing big stuff either, the problem there is coordination... it's too complex for just one man, or two.

I love the digital world... soon we will HAVE to sell ideas... since the actual construction will get easier and easier.