Architectural Stamp - Image - Security

[3dway]

Ok, please forgive me for this being a stupid question but this concern comes from higher up where there is less of an understanding of digital imagery.

Back in the days of CAD someone came up with the idea of an electronic stamp. People started using a raster image of the stamp and xref'd the image into the drawing. This kept the image from being sent when you emailed the file.

Caveats:
-I doubt we'll be emailing revit files around - They're big.... really big.
-whether or not the raster image of the stamp is in the file sent.... we print to PDF and FTP them to the printer anyhow... so anyone who knows how to use photoshop and gets ahold of our PDF can have their own version of the stamp... so the whole security of the raster stamp is moot.

Regrardless,
in this office there are going to be people who are still attached to the idea that separating the stamp raster image somehow provides us with some mystical level of security.

I would really like to avoid the whole explanation session which will have to occur several times, and just say, "here is your stamp in a separate file, FRED (fictitious) at AUGI assures us that it's not part of any files we'll be sending ot anyone.

Thanks.

[Nevine]

I think worrying about someone stealing the image of the stamp is a bit paranoiac. The truth is if someone really want it and have a hard copy of the plans they can scan it and get it regardless. Also the stamp without a signature is useless. I always wet sign my plans for permits and official use otherwise no signature on any other plans. Hope that helps.

[3dway]

I think worrying about someone stealing the image of the stamp is a bit paranoiac. The truth is if someone really want it and have a hard copy of the plans they can scan it and get it regardless. Also the stamp without a signature is useless. I always wet sign my plans for permits and official use otherwise no signature on any other plans. Hope that helps.

I appreciate you sharing your outlook and your method, but I can't take that up the ladder. It would go a bit like:

"Is that stamp part of the file, can people get that and use it?"
"I think you're paranoid, don't worry about it."
"I think you should start looking for a new job"

I really need to offer something, anything. An explanation of how stamping drawings is archaic and means nothing is not going to fly, even though it's true. The fact that the company is registered with a self governing legislated organization is what is important. The fact that we have a stamp is more impotant than whether or not we put it on the drawings. I don't think that a stamp on the drawings means anything anymore because if you're savvy enough to produce a set of electronically drafted drawings, you're savvy enough to put a fake stamp on a set of drawings..... but I digress.

Is there a good out of the box way to make a family that links the image in, and if the image is not sitting at the end of the path that it expects, it displays a proxy graphic?

Thanks

[aggockel50321]

You may want to look at Adobe's method for creating a certified document.

That may give them the comfort level they're seeking.

[tomnewsom]

Yes, PDF have digital signing (which can be accompanied by a stamp image)

Of course, nothing will stop the print and scan, but they can be (reasonably) sure of (reasonably) secure electronic transmission sets.

[archjake]

I agree with others here. It isn't something that you should worry about. When I ordered my seal and stamps I was never once asked for a copy of an official certificate or any other proof that I was actually registered. One can also go to most state boards and look up architects and engineers seal numbers from their websites. So, anyone who is devious could pick and choose who's stamp they want and just order a new one. Then they can stamp away. This also includes image files that can be purchased from the stamp shops as well. Being paranoid isn't worth it!

[SCShell]

I agree with others here. It isn't something that you should worry about. When I ordered my seal and stamps I was never once asked for a copy of an official certificate or any other proof that I was actually registered. One can also go to most state boards and look up architects and engineers seal numbers from their websites. So, anyone who is devious could pick and choose who's stamp they want and just order a new one. Then they can stamp away. This also includes image files that can be purchased from the stamp shops as well. Being paranoid isn't worth it!

Hey there,

"Ditto"

Thank you
Steve

[DaveP]

Nice discussion, and I totally agree with the sentiment, but no one has answered the original question.
Your best bet would be to make two families. One with the signature, and one just a dummy empty graphic. Name them both the same and put them in different folders. Normally, in your office, you'll have the real family loaded. When you need to send a file to a consultant, you load in the dummy family from the other folder, send the file, and then reload the real one.

That should put your principal at ease that you have a procedure in place to "guarantee" that their signature is "secure". After trying this a few times, you can explain that it takes a long time ($) and really provides no benefit, & ask them if they think its worth it.

[D.Williams]

Nice discussion, and I totally agree with the sentiment, but no one has answered the original question.
Your best bet would be to make two families. One with the signature, and one just a dummy empty graphic. Name them both the same and put them in different folders. Normally, in your office, you'll have the real family loaded. When you need to send a file to a consultant, you load in the dummy family from the other folder, send the file, and then reload the real one.

This is similar to what we do. Two titleblock families - one with stamps, one without. Only loading and using the stamps family when required. We always save the file, load family, swapout, print, and close without saving. That way that family is hopefully never a part of any sent files. No muss no fuss.

[greg.mcdowell]

I'm starting to go down a differnt path than putting them in the file... I'm thinking about doing all this in Design Review/

If I make the seal, signature, etc. a stamp in DR then I can place it on each sheet where and if needed. Unless I sent out the DWF (which I haven't done much of yet) the seal is as secure as if it were placed on the printed sheet.

It's a thought at least.

[archjake]

You might also try a plug in for adobe acrobat that is call banjo. Do a search on google and you'll find it. It's what we use to digitally sign PDFs with a digital signature and a graphic signature which are both tied. People then validate the PDF signature to know that it is legitimate. By doing so it removes the "unvalidated" water mark over the graphic signature. I don't know why you couldn't do the same with the seal and signature during the digital signing. The Banjo plug in was developed by an architect / programer.

[AUGI Strangelove]

For what it's worth, it is now illegal in Colorado to have the stamp be part of the documents. All stamps have to be wet stamps, old school.

[David Haynes]

For what it's worth, it is now illegal in Colorado to have the stamp be part of the documents. All stamps have to be wet stamps, old school.

Now that is really 21st Century!:roll:

I think in the world when a person can scan anything and make it digital, the issue is moot. But I am sure the discussion will continue....

Anyway, here is an interesting piece of that Adobe Banjo plugin
http://www.linetype.com/products/banjo/ae/index.htm

[hand471037]

Now that is really 21st Century!:roll:

Hey David, this sounds like a awesome oppertunity for your in-house API folks.

Make a tool that lets one securely 'stamp' one's drawing sets in Revit. For example, a utility that only swaps the 'unsigned' version of the stamp family graphic with the 'signed' version upon entry of a password when the tool is run. You could even have the tool ask for basic information, like who's authorizing the 'stamping' and what date and time and such it happened, and to send out a notice to the head boss that something was stamped.

I mean, sounds pretty easy, the code's already out there for you to swap one family with another. Add some logging, a password, and you're pretty much there.

Now, back on topic: every firm I've worked for just had the stamps sitting in a tray somewhere. It's not like they were locked away, anyone could just walk off with one if they wanted to. And it's not like the signature of the Architects was anything more than a scribble. And, finally, it's not like anyone at the building department would suddenly notice 'hey, this isn't so-and-so's signature on this stamp! It's a fake!'.

But just because something's silly doesn't mean that you can tell your bosses that. However, one thing you can tell them is that if your sets only go out as DWF/PDF, and you're not sending your Revit files to anyone, that it's very unlikely that anyone would be able to 'steal' the stamp for it would be a pain to do so. And, if someone's willing to go to that trouble, then they could probably go down to the building department, pull an old set of yours, and get a print off the microfilm and scan that instead...