Parametric Lattice

[Dean Camlin]

I've been puzzling over how to do this for a while, but have gotten nowhere, so I'm throwing it open to you Family Masters out there. We use lattice screens on many residential projects to enclose spaces below porches (keeps the rabbits out). I broke down & modeled these as in-place families, but I wonder if they could be done parametrically? Any thoughts?[/img]

[beegee]

If you refer to the thread _ Parametric Louvres - you will get a feel for how it can be done. The answer is yes - probably; but it will require patience and a learning curve. The lattice members at 45 degrees present a little more difficulty to model than 90 deg members, since that complicates the array setup, ( I think )

A 2 dimensional array is needed to get the lattice to work ( ie arrays in x and z planes ) The parametic louvres, and similar parametric fences only use a one dimensional array (in either x or z ) with the other planar parameter being controlled by the nested family element.

I havn't been able to get a 2 dimensional to work properly yet, but, in theory .... ( as zoog likes to say ) it should.

Theres also some debate at present about whether or not a bug exists in certain templates for parametric arrays. I'm still trying to get to the bottom of that.

Sorry for the long winded, off the cuff response, If I can get some time, I will see if I can get something going for the lattice. ( I might start with the members running vertical and horizontal though )

[Allen Lacy]

Here's another way at it. Make the lattice a wall and then use wall sweeps for the frame. Then you need only to create a surface pattern for 2D elevations. Just a thought.

[beegee]

Here's another way at it. Make the lattice a wall and then use wall sweeps for the frame. Then you need only to create a surface pattern for 2D elevations. Just a thought.

I often have lattice screens in multi residential projects, where its useful to see through them for 3D views. If thats not a problem, this solution wins hands down for ease and time.

[bclarch]

Perhaps you could make them as a wall type and array a void to punch holes where needed. Might be a good enough approximation.

[beegee]

Perhaps you could make them as a wall type and array a void to punch holes where needed. Might be a good enough approximation.

Hmmmm,

Arraying a void will probably take as much time and effort as arraying the lattice.

[Henry D]

How about making it into a railing? Top and bottom rail would be frame and then make angled balusters for the lattice.

[beegee]

Very inventive, Henry.

I'm looking forward to seeing it.

[PeterJ]

I have used lattice work for balconies and simply used a material with a 45 degree cross-hatch, which was close enough to reality. It didn't show the doors/windows beyond though except when rendered as the transparency index only appears to be a feature in rendered views.

P

[gnl]

Here in Italy we did a railing balauster that is similar to the Lattice you are doing. It's not parametric internally, but it should work with little modification. It was done for 4.5 and it might need some adjusting for 5.1 since I haven't tried it.
The length of the balauster is 1.2 meters, but I guess you could add a parameter in the balauster family to control it, and then set it from the project browser to fit your needs.

If you want to do the Lattice truly parametric, I think you would have to use nested elements for the arrays.

ciao

[PeterJ]

This is a little bit clunky but it should do most of what you are looking for.

Trellis 1 is nested in Trellsi 2 which is a baluster family, run it with no rails and you should have what you need. Best thing to do with it is host it from your floor slab and then set the offset so that the bottom is at or around ground level then it will move with the slab if needed.

Of course it is in metric.....

P

[Vincent Valentijn]

Interesting idea to make this parametric array!
I haven't looked at the posted families but I have a suggestion from the top of my head:
make the 45deg parts as seen from the front and extrude them. You can make extrusion/widht/height[in vert]/widht[in hor] parametric for this item. Then you can do a simple horizontal array of this object.
For the railings, you can define the height of the railing relative to the 45deg trellis. For fitting the total length you can make the array relative to this [use formula]...
The only problem I can think of that would be hard to solve is how the trellis looks at the ends of the fence. Probably it would be wise to make seperate endparts like this |> <| and fill out the rest.

Don't have the time to have a go at this right now, if you produce anything like this I look forward to seeing it.

[Martin P]

I would do the same as you Vincent - a horizontal array of 45 angled extrusion. The ends could be solved simply using voids that could be ajusted to follow the length, and would cut the arrayed lattice parts at each vertically. I would do the lattice as one family as described above, and the frame separately, with paramters tied through both for length control. the load them into each other. - just to keep it from getting too cluttered.

[Vincent Valentijn]

yep, you definately get the picture :D
now somebody with time on their hands.. please execute! hahaha :wink:

[rgecy]

Dean,

I have been looking for this same thing for a while and you guys inspired me to give it a try. Here are 2 files with Parametric Lattice. Let me know how these work. I am a beginner, but I was excited to be able to figure this one out.

The first file has a pattern fill that looks authentic but you cannot see through the holes. I am working on trying to make the lattice truly extruded.

The second file will let you chose a fill pattern for the Lattice.

I have found though, that by using fill patterns it may not look authentic in smaller or larger views because the fill pattern does not scale.

Real simple to manipulate and it looks good when its in a section. You can edit it and make you own Types. Maybe someone can get it to extrude the lattice pattern.

Good Luck,
Robert Gecy

[rgecy]

Here it is. Fully Parametric Lattice you can see through and change the color of. I did not create any family because it seems that each project has different spacing and this way you adjust them as you put them in.

I extruded the lattice to about 4 feet by 14 feet and used a void to cover what stuck out the fram. So it will only handle a maximum size of 4 feet tall by 14 feet wide. This should be good for most projects.

I hope this woks good. Let me know if I need to fix anything.

Good Luck,
Robert Gecy

[rhys]

Tried Peters lattice families as a railing, nearly there but why are the balusters rotated 90deg. cant seem to turn them round seems basic but I can't change them. The perforated metal panel Im trying to achieve is not parametric in the jpeg, and peters railing is in the foreground. Any ideas

[PeterJ]

If I get a moment I'll look at that railing for you Rhys. I may have made it in the wrong plane.

[PeterJ]

Curiosity got the better of me. It is in the wrong plane. A baluster family needs to show its width in the left/right plane. If you select on plan you can turn it through 90 degrees but I found that lost its parametricality.

It will work if you set it just right and don't need it parametric but I can't work out how to make it flexible again in the time I have.

Strugglin with NBS Scheduler and a deadline right now.

[Steve_Stafford]

Well if Z made this family it would be called Parametric Lettuce... :twisted: (but it would work...sorry Peter, had to add that, off to my corner now...)

[Allen Lacy]

If it were "Parametric lettuce", would the leaves flex or size of the head or both? :twisted:

[cphubb]

Here is my 2 cents (thats about all its worth so don't laugh) :)

I have used lattice extensivly as well prior to using Revit i would use a 1" thick wall (or solid in ACAD, 3ds) and apply a lattice hatch for shading and general viewing purposese.

For rendering I developed a lattice material which had a lattice transparancy mask over the surface which allowed the rendering to see through the lattice.

I have not tried this yet with AcuRender but it works very well in max and Viz. It also does not slow down the model as much as I thing a parametric lattice would.

Has anybody else tried this in AcuRender?

[PeterJ]

I've used a similar trick with rendering materials and yes it works. My issue is that for a drawing in the detail I required I wanted to be able to see through the lattice.

[beegee]

I've used parametric lettuce and parametric luvers before without any noticeable problem in file size/speed decrease.

[rhys]

Peters trellis files sort of fixed lattice pattern need to be draw in plan see rotrellis1.rfa. Then arrayed in trellis2.rfa. Spacing set in railings at 150mm in this case. Not very parametric. would be great to have a complete set of patterns. I can't however seem to be able to remove the top rail from the final insert of the railing.

[PeterJ]

You can do it Rhys, you're just not trying hard enough....

Click on the rail. Right click for properties, click to edit and go and remove the top rail or change its offset so it's where you want it.

[rhys]

Trying too hard - as far as i can see -
a railing Must always have at least one rail. This could be a slab edge. There seems to be 2 other glitches in the family I have made.
1.The end 3 balusters appear to repeat off module and
2.editing, the rail crashes revit!!
So I haven't fixed Peters trellis at all.
Boo Ho

[PeterJ]

Rhys it is rapidly approaching pub time. Try the following and you will be free to go.

Draw a second railing in the relevant location and to the correct length and then edit the properties of this railing to be just a rail.

Edit your first railing so that it is a multiple of the size of your baluster and spacing. You may need to play with this a little to get it to work but the end goal is to have a baluster that repeats exactly because revit slots in an extra baluster at the end if the length of the railing and the spacing do not coincide as an exact multiple. Centre this revised length on the railing with no baluster and you will have a very good approximation of your real world arrangement. You may need to draft over this a little when it comes to detailing but for most purposes it will suffice. You will see a slight line where the longer railing encloses the shorter one.

Send me a cheque.

Go to pub.

If you get adventurous you might look at the attached image and work out how the balusters are independent of the rail. Its a variation of the same technique.
http://www.ja-s.co.uk/images/rhys%20railing.jpg

[rhys]

Peter took your advice and went to pub.
This will have to be a diversion over xmas.
I can see how with off sets you can draw balusters away from rail and understand the spacing issue.
Can't seem to mask railing though. Lets see how it all works in v6.