Multiple Campus Buildings in One Document Set

[ddragoo144336]

I've searched through old threads in the forums, and I would like to check the approach that I believe we are going to take on a new project. This elementary school project consists of single story buildings - 8 existing buildings to be modernized, 5 new buildings, 5 new relocatable buildings and complete site work. This entire campus will bid as a single project with a single CD package.

Each building will be drawn in an individual model file, along with all necessary views - plans, elevations, and sections (including the existing, demolition, and new construction phases for the modernization work). These building models will then be linked into a master file, rotated as necessary and laid out as they would be on the site plan. Each individual building floor plan, ceiling plan, etc. would then be a callout from this view.

The master file will contain the project documentation - all sheets, schedules, etc. Callouts for sections and details will be located here, so as to have only one location for details in the project. However, all keynoting (plans, sections, and elevations) will be placed in the individual model files and displayed in the corresponding master file views utilizing the view override "by linked view".

Questions:

1. How do I do the individual building / ceiling plans? If I do them as a callout from the master/site plan, then I cannot get the keynotes from the individual model file to show using the override "by linked view", since the only choices given me are elevations and section views. (They do show up in the master/site plan if I choose "by linked view", but I don't want them here.) Since the section markers are placed in the master/site plan, this isn't an issue with this type of drawing.

2. Do you recommend doing the site work and documentation in the master file, or linking the master file into an additional file that would contain this information?

3. We are currently drawing the individual model files so that the walls in each file are at 0 and 90 degrees. The buildings are in all sorts of different angles on the site. Do I put a true north in each model file? (I haven't worked with this before.) How do I deal with the coordinates.

4. The individual model files have 0'-0" set as the floor level, however they are at different elevations in relation to each other. I need to move the linked files up and down to the correct elevations in the master file. Will this be an issue?

5. Does all of this make sense? I feel like I am stepping off into a nightmare. I am wondering if this should all just be set up in a single project file but I am concerned about file size.

[twiceroadsfool]

1. Im not sure why thats not working in your file, unless im missing something when im reading. We have a Campus project that is 7 models, exactly as youve decribed. I have a comprehensive Flr Plan in the Main Model, and i have callouts from there. And i have enlarged callouts from the callouts. ALL of thsoe Plans and RCP's use By Linked View, and they all work...

2. I would look at yuor largest building, or the one with the most documentation, and evaluate if that model will be too cumbersome to be your main model. We have 7 buildings, but the "Main" Building file IS the main model... That way not ALL 7 have to be set up by linked view...

3 & 4. Not sure, since ours are all at the same elevation, and share the same North orientation.

5. Its not as bad as you think... We were terrified at first too, but once you get everyone up to speed on the linked views, and VIEW TEMPLATES, its cake. Youll want the VT's for cleaning up overrides, etc... In terms of Grids / structure / etc... Just realize any VT that has VG Overrides for RVT Links will undo youre By Linked Views, and youll have to put them back after you push out the VT.

But the new functionaility of linked views in section and elevation is makign this a breeze...

[ddragoo144336]

I've been discussing this whole thing with my co-workers since I originally posted this, and I swear I feel like my brain is being eaten


1. Im not sure why thats not working in your file, unless im missing something when im reading. We have a Campus project that is 7 models, exactly as youve decribed. I have a comprehensive Flr Plan in the Main Model, and i have callouts from there. And i have enlarged callouts from the callouts. ALL of thsoe Plans and RCP's use By Linked View, and they all work...

So they all work for you, as in the Keynotes from the individual model files will appear in the individual building floor plans, etc. in the master file that are callouts from the "comprehensive plan" that has all of the linked files? I can get them to appear in the initial "comprehensive plan", but not the subsequent callouts from that.


2. I would look at yuor largest building, or the one with the most documentation, and evaluate if that model will be too cumbersome to be your main model. We have 7 buildings, but the "Main" Building file IS the main model... That way not ALL 7 have to be set up by linked view...

That makes a ton of sense, but our project has so many different building types and different construction, none of them is really the "Main" building.


But the new functionaility of linked views in section and elevation is makign this a breeze...

So the process of using the "by linked view" override works in elevations just as well as it does in plan? I've tested the sections but not the elevations yet.


OOOOH. We just felt an earthquake.

[josh.made4worship]

I just tested the issue of annotation coming in from the linked file using "by Linked view" and I was able to get it to come in a callout (enlarged floor plan) of an RCP as well. This should work...maybe if you can describe exactly what you are doing step by step, we can see if we can duplicate the problem/tell you how to fix it.

You need to research Shared Coordinates. This is how you will deal with the differing building locations and angles. I am pretty sure you need to set the coordinates for each project including the angle, and then when you bring them in, you should be able to assign them to the right place based on these settings. there are some pretty good tutorials on Shared coordinates out there, just google it or search for it in these forums.

Good luck.

[kingjosiah]

OOOOH. We just felt an earthquake.

Wow, you felt that all the way down there in Carlsbad??! We're in downtown LA -- needless to say, we were a bit freaked out in our old historic highrise. But for those of us used to this, we're back hard at work again.

We also use linked files with shared coordinates as Aaron & Josh discussed. Seems to work well. We are however struggling with locating and referring to the typical plans/elevations/details. My understanding is that dummy callouts/sheets will need to be used in the .rvt files where the typical info does not reside.

For a minimal cost, there are great tutorials for shared coordinates and linking buildings into a campus on the cadclips website. Try either www.cadclips.com or www.dgcad.com.

Good luck.
-Jon

[ddragoo144336]

I just tested the issue of annotation coming in from the linked file using "by Linked view" and I was able to get it to come in a callout (enlarged floor plan) of an RCP as well. This should work...maybe if you can describe exactly what you are doing step by step, we can see if we can duplicate the problem/tell you how to fix it.

I finally solved that problem. I was accidentally using a detail callout rather than a floor plan callout. Now it works fine!


Wow, you felt that all the way down there in Carlsbad??! We're in downtown LA -- needless to say, we were a bit freaked out in our old historic highrise. But for those of us used to this, we're back hard at work again.

It was pretty rumbling in our two-story wood office building here on the north side of Oceanside. Apparently my husband and his coworkers in Irvine ended up under their desks before the whole thing was over and he's even a native Californian. I don't think I'll ever get used to the darned things.


We also use linked files with shared coordinates as Aaron & Josh discussed. Seems to work well. We are however struggling with locating and referring to the typical plans/elevations/details. My understanding is that dummy callouts/sheets will need to be used in the .rvt files where the typical info does not reside.

This is what we are trying to work through now. Are you doing the sheets for each individual building in the individual model files, or are you trying to do the documentation in the comprehensive master file?

From what I have researched, it looks like dummy sheets are the only answer if you do the sheets in the individual model files. What I am trying to finish figuring out is how to do the documentation in the comprehensive master file so that we can fully utilize Revit in coordinating details and callouts. I'm just wondering if having to override view settings everywhere to "by linked view" is going to be manageable and in the end worth it.

Every way of doing this just seems to be a huge trade-off. Thanks for your help, everyone!

[twiceroadsfool]

I was about to ask about the detail vs. FP thing, when i realized what you were saying...

Speaking of which, you guys want some help in Carlsbad? Im an arrogant SOAB, but im fairly talented and LOVE Carlsbad.... I wouldnt mind a trip out there, get me out of CNY... ;)

[twiceroadsfool]

This is what we are trying to work through now. Are you doing the sheets for each individual building in the individual model files, or are you trying to do the documentation in the comprehensive master file?

From what I have researched, it looks like dummy sheets are the only answer if you do the sheets in the individual model files. What I am trying to finish figuring out is how to do the documentation in the comprehensive master file so that we can fully utilize Revit in coordinating details and callouts. I'm just wondering if having to override view settings everywhere to "by linked view" is going to be manageable and in the end worth it.

Every way of doing this just seems to be a huge trade-off. Thanks for your help, everyone!


Trust me, do NOT do the dummy sheets. The by linked view thing is very easy. In fact, heres what i did. Start laying out the shells of the building files, and get them all linked together.

Then, JUST in the master file, go through ahd cartoon all the views and sheets that you think youll need. The, as you progress, just go building by building and create the views in the ancillary model files. I have a "View Master" Floor plan in the Documentation model that shows all of the callouts and sections in the main model, just so i can visualize which ones i still need in the anciallary models. It really isnt that bad.

Things to consider: Family definitions and Model Group Definitions... They only update in one model obviously, so you have to repopulate them. But for reasons like that, i WOULDNT want sheets in every single model. Having to open 5 models to plot a set, and find out you changed the titleblock to 90% submission in 5 of 7 models, but oops... Forgot in 2.

Ours is a fairly simple set of buildings, so the drawing set is only about 70 sheets, but i like having them all in one place, and the callouts and Linked views are not hard to manage at ALL. 1 of the four on the team is brand new, and 3 of the 4 have never used a linked view before in their life, and they picked it up very fast.

[kingjosiah]

OK, Aaron....looks like i'm going to have to read through your comments in more detail later. It sounds as if you are suggesting the end goal that we are trying to achieve.

To answer your question blusurfer, we're at the same point as you with respect to location of documentation sheets. Ours is just the second fullsize Revit project through the office now; the team working on the first project is coaching us with the callout/detail process....yet ours has more repetitive pieces so we're in uncharted territory. We have 4 bldgs on a campus; each building is a separate .rvt file, with the site being the master into which each bldg is linked. Sheets that are specific to each building reside in the respective building file. The intent is to have a separate "main" .rvt file which houses the sheet index, general notes, door/window/finish schedules, and all typical plans, interior elevs, walls sections, details, etc.....but were working through the callout issues just like you. Actually, we've already started down this road -- hope it was the right one.

For us, this is most streamlined approach as each .rvt file is each physical printed set. Large project, each mini-set will exceed 100 pages.....

The issue, like you, is how to call out a typical plan, detail or whatever that resides in the 'main' file from each individual building. How would the callouts on the individual buildings know where they are on the master file? That's what i thought dummy sheets were for (by dummy, i don't mean unintelligent callout tags....but rather sheets that are duplicated in both the individual and master files).

I must be missing something.....

[twiceroadsfool]

The callout views have to exist in BOTH files. You cant "Reference other view" of a view that is in the Linked file. Lets say you have "Typical plan at house element A" in your "Main" set of documents.

And you have a House A in your "Building 2", you will need a callout in the Building 2 model as well. Now, a Linked view wont work here, since youre not linking to a view of "Main" but rather, wanting to show something similar.

For that, and for moving typical elements in between youre building files, i would use Model groups with embedded detail groups. We do that for the typical elements in our 7 files anyway. That way, if you update one and the detailing needs to be updated as well, you save the group out, overwrite the orevious definition, and then just go to the other files and reload the group...

[patricks]

okay here's a kicker... what if you have separate buildings, which are then linked by a pedestrian bridge? If you made each building a separate file (possibly even the bridge a separate file), and then place them all into a master site file, will the wall joins clean up? I'm guessing not.

Also, what if you're working in one building file and you need to see the adjacent bridge connection. Can you link the building files into each other?

We have a project like this (buildings on 2 adjacent city blocks, connected by a bridge over the street). Right now it's all in one file, with separate worksets for each building. I'm not sure if that is the best solution, though.

[twiceroadsfool]

Also, what if you're working in one building file and you need to see the adjacent bridge connection. Can you link the building files into each other?




I dont see why you couldnt. We have our files all interlinked with one another... The walls wont clean up, but you can have them butting up against each other, and take care of it in a detail, i imagine...

Depending on how large those buildings are, im not sure id want that all in one model, just because of the shear size of it and the documentation involved... Plus, are they two seperate sets of documents? Or one together?

[patricks]

Well we originally thought it was going to be a single CD set, but now the owners have decided to phase the buildings and bid out the different portions separately.

However, for the purposes of developing the overall elevations of the combined buildings, I feel like it really does need to be all in one set. Thoughts on that? I think it would be extremely cumbersome trying to model things on adjacent building that are supposed to relate to one another and have to switch back and forth between files and constantly update links.

The total building area of all buildings, 2 floors combined is only about 45,000 s.f., so I wouldn't really call it huge. The Revit file is currently around 41 MB, but that is with several JPEG site plan images embedded in there.

[twiceroadsfool]

If its going to be two seperate drawing sets, i would make it seperate models. Otherwise one entire set will have to have a 1 or 2 as a prefix on a sheet name, etc. Its really not bad at all switching between links... Except i hate that you can right click and open a link in the Browser, because that makes people open the central file, lol.

But seriously, everyone on our team gets a local copy of all 7 models, and its not that bad. Combining elevations and whatnot is cake, with linked views. We have elevations that span 5 of the 7 buildings, and its no hardship...

[patricks]

Yeah I wouldn't doubt it if everything is already modeled and all you're doing now is documenting, and maybe tweaking a few model things here and there.

However our project is currently still in SD's. The boss is still the one doing most of the elevation work at this point.

[twiceroadsfool]

You COULD divide it up after, as long as the buildings are close enough to forget about shared coordinates. Our 7 buildings went through SD all in one file, and then a series of SAVE AS's seperated them all. BUT, if you have a large spread and need to use Shared Coords, thats a pain. AND, you have a ton of files to clean out uesless stuff from.

In early SD, the files are so light i would just keep moving back and forth, or keep locals of them all opened... Just my two cents though. Even with 7 arch models and 7 structural models, moving back and forth doesnt take long... especially with two sessions of revit opened. :)

[rodgersmatt66]

So how are you getting your keynotes in the link to show up in the legend? Is it just me or is the keynote legend in the wrong spot? It should be the keynote schedule and I should be able to include elements in the linked file.

[ddragoo144336]

So how are you getting your keynotes in the link to show up in the legend? Is it just me or is the keynote legend in the wrong spot? It should be the keynote schedule and I should be able to include elements in the linked file.

This is the big snafu that I have found. With the keynotes located in the individual model files and the documentation in the master file, I don't think there is any way to generate a keynote legend in the master file. We would have to do some sort of manual work around for this - perhaps a view with all of the keynotes used in the project somehow placed in it. (We just do keynoting "by user".)

If we were to go the route of putting the documentation for each building in the individual building model files, we could generate keynote legends for each of those buildings individually, but we would not be able to follow our preferred method of creating one keynote legend for the entire set.

Does anyone else have any thoughts on this?

[rodgersmatt66]

It feels like I am 90% there, except I just want to be able to check one stupid little box that is grayed out. It seems like this should not be a difficult task to accomplish.

I have not used the SDK much, but I wonder if it is possible to change that function.

[josh.made4worship]

Okay,

So it sounds to me like:

1) Do all of your annotation like wall tags, window tags, door tags, room tags, dimensions, etc. in each individual model. These things just literally "can't" be done in the overall through a link.

2) Link in each model into a master where you can generate your overall schedules, except that you can't do a Keynote legend, which is a big hickup. (can you filter, say a door schedule, by building?...I just tested this and it looks like the only way to do this is by setting up a shared parameter that I can filter off of...seems pretty stupid considering that I know Revit know's which file the door comes from...anybody know for sure about this?).

3) Create all of your views and sheets including floor plans, ceiling plans, elevations, sections, details, etc, in the Master file, so that way the view referencing and view numbering will work correctly...thus eliminating the need for dummy sheets.

4) View templates are important for maintaining consistency in the buildings, but must be careful when applying them as to not override any linked view changes that have been made.

***My own addition
5) Couldn't you use a scope box for each building and then assign a particular view to a scope box. The you wouldn't have to create a "callout" to get the view you want. When you do by linked view, you can select any level you want for that drawing, even if you are technically cutting through 4'-0" above Level 1 in the master file. The only thing you have to watch out for is making sure that whatever actually exists locally in the master file, for example, the site, is correctly displayed in that view since it will still be controlled by the local cut plane.

6) Another method might be to actually copy/monitor or recreate all the levels that are in each building, in the master file. This way, you can set up scope boxes to be used to define areas, and then when you set up a floor plan or ceiling plan view, you can actually select the level you want to used as the level reference for the cut plane.

For our project, we have a site that has 4 10+ story buildings at varying levels and we want to see the relationships between the buildings absolutely from the site, meaning that we want a cut plane of say, 30'-0" to show us whatever level it actually is off the site. Or at least reference a particular buildings cut plan and take that all the way across the site. See our buildings are going to be connecting, but they will connect for example, from level 2 in one building to level 3 in the other. Just a matter of the floor to floor height's varying in the existing buildings. Hope that makes sense. So it that regard, it probably really depends on what you are trying to do/show.

I would like anyone elses thoughts on my additions as well as corrections/additions to the summary points I have made in regards to this thread. I think it will make it easier for someone coming to this post to find an answer is there are two or three threads that summarize what needs to be done/considered in projects like all of us are dealing with.

Good luck!

[chodosh]

Okay,
2) Link in each model into a master where you can generate your overall schedules...can you filter, say a door schedule, by building?...

Yessir, absolutely! If each building is it's own file, that is... In the lower left-hand corner of the schedule Fields properties, select to Include elements in linked files, as you mentioned. Then under "Select available fields from:" choose RVT Links. This will allow you to include in your schedule the Link File Name and the Link Name. Then, in your schedule you can filter/sort/group by these as you please.

Note: Link Name = the name you gave the instance of the link in your file in the properties of the link itself, an often overlooked attribute that I haven't quite figured out how to employ successfully just yet.

HTH,
LC

[troy.crandell635379]

I would love to hear if you've found a solution to this problem. I'm faced with the same problem here and would love to know if there is a good answer.

[Alex Page]

We have a unit linked in multiple times and if we need to tag its instance name (ie: so we can tag in elevation/section/plan "Unit 05" etc)

For the life of me I cant work out how to do it...