Rendering Styles and Philosophy

[SkiSouth]

Attached is a summary of my recent experiments with Photoshop and Revit. As you can see, you can accomplish a more "artistic" style of Presentation with Photoshop - without a re-definition of materials, file exporting etc. The problem for me is how to share this knowledge with you Reviteers....

These Photoshoped files have 34 to 40 steps to process in Photoshop - without stopping to add brush strokes. (This can be automated, but there are nuances to the automation) The total time to work an image can vary from 20 minutes to an hour (depending on if I'm experimenting or not :-D ) And essentially each file was handled very closely to the same, but with dis-similar results. (So you still have to have your "artsy" hat on to work this stuff...) So while I am almost to the point of being able to explain the process - it won't be easy. So while I cogitate on how to present this, could perhaps this forum generate some links or jpgs on other looks for me (or others) to try to further accomplish with photoshop. Most of these are a "watercolor" look. I'll tackle the "pencil" look next

Anyway, any help, suggestions would be most appreciated...

[hdjohnson]

Skisouth,

All of your work is excellent! I would very much like to know the steps that you go through to create these renderings.

[SkiSouth]

Thanks. Further examples in gallery, however, what types of "looks" would be desired (besides any and all) i.e., charcoal, pencil, colored pencil, pastel...etc.

Moderator -My attempt was to get a discussion here vs. the gallery. Is this the right location?

[beegee]

Yes Ski, you're dead on track.

Thanks for taking the time and trouble. Photoshop ( or a similar paint program ) is a powerful tool combined with Revit Accurender, as you've already shown in the Gallery. The techniques to produce a variety of different styles would be a useful addition to anyone's skill base.

Personally, I'd like to learn more about getting close to a SketchUp type look, with materials and colours purposely toned right down and the whole feel explicitly telling the client that this is an early schematic view and that things are not fully defined yet. Many clients respond well to that level of presentation as they feel more comfortable to discuss design changes.

[SkiSouth]

I've played with that to no real success. The initial idea I had was to hold a separate library, a duplicate of my main finishes, with a "transparency factor". Randomly I set it at 50 percent. Its a lot of work to setup, and if you miss a material, then you have to go back, create it, and then re-render. It would perhaps be nice to set a material with two or check boxes, similar to the hatch selections, where you could select a prelim, or sketch library of materials vs. a finished material render. Also, I think I had to redirect my paths to get the correct library to load. It was a lot of work and only minimum success. The idea came from Phil's line and transparency sketch posted here.

Right now I'm trying to see if I can figure out a process to achieve the line extension/ variable width lines that make the sketchup renderings so cool. To no avail at this time. Anyone with a suggestion or a neat plugin or filter for photoshop...?

[SkiSouth]

Okay first look at a pencil using this methodology. Almost a cross between the water color technique and a pencil look, not really a sketchy look that would be pencil technique. Maybe a paper texture should be added?

[beegee]

Looking good !

Possibly still looks more like a watercolour than a coloured pencil sketch though ?

[SkiSouth]

:mrgreen: Yeap. My nature tends towards laziness. I was trying to cheat..... This technique is not going to work for pencil - drat... I will go back to the older technique and revisit. Looks probably more like a wet on dry watercolor. Very vaild comment... I do like the colors better. Looks even better darker.. There were streaks that didn't show up in the PDF file. the jpg looks better, but its also 8 times bigger. Trying to keep the posts down in size. Changed the contrast and reposted over the old one. Still Watercolor looking but better (in my opinion)

[SkiSouth]

Perhaps more pencil like? The pencil strokes are using a motion blur.

[beegee]

Definitely heading in the right direction Ski.

A vignette may work well with this style ?

[SkiSouth]

A vignette is easy. I wonder if I can go from pencil to outline to vignette? - Hmmmmmm...

Okay - here it is. I'll confess though, I got in a hurry and didn't save the base photoshop file- oh well, back to redo.... :Oops: .

Went back and recreated and reloaded. I think the bottom one is more what we're looking for.. :-D

[SkiSouth]

another study - watercolor/marker look still working on a consistent technique. Right now it varies on being able to get the effect to be close to a look.... :???:

[Scott D Davis]

Does the image really say "Bank of Revit" on the side of the building? That's the bank we all need.....

[SkiSouth]

Does the image really say "Bank of Revit" on the side of the building? That's the bank we all need.....


Yeah - you know - you only get out what you put in..... :razz:

[Henry D]

Ski,

I really like your Bank watercolor...it's great! I would love to learn how to do that.

[SkiSouth]

Ski,

I really like your Bank watercolor...it's great! I would love to learn how to do that.

Thanks. I'm in process of working out the "how to's". Will post a tutorial of some type when ready. I'm kinda tied up for the next few days, so it won't be soon... Sorry. :-?

[beegee]

Yeah - you know - you only get out what you put in..... :razz:
If its The Bank of Revit, you get out what you put in ... with interest ! ;-)

[SkiSouth]

Another Pencil technique with vignette to line drawing...

[Andre Baros]

I assume your using Photoslop for these... if so, try ctrl-shift-f right after you apply your filter. It can help keep the effect from overwhelming the image.

[SkiSouth]

I assume your using Photoslop for these... if so, try ctrl-shift-f right after you apply your filter. It can help keep the effect from overwhelming the image.

Thanks, I'll use the tip - but the effect is set to where I wanted it - Everyone has their own opinion... :grin:

[Andre Baros]

No offence intended... I use a similar technique and like to layer it up by fading a series of filters on top of eachother. I like the images, and am generally a fan of always adding a little something to all my images.

[SkiSouth]

None Taken. Like I said, we each have an opinion.. Would rather have a comment than not any day, and like I said, I will use the suggestion..

[SkiSouth]

In keeping with Wes' post of Revit 7.0 images - I couldn't resist throwing Photoshop at them... Anyway - I've a good idea of how to present this methodology - Sorry it took so long to figure out. Hopefully will be posting it in 2 or 3 weeks. (About end of October - maybe before)..

[adegnan]

Wow! I am thoroughly impressed. I thought the sample images posted by Wes were impressive. And they are in the advances in Revit. But in terms of presentation, Photoshop is amazing how it improves the readability. I gotta go back to the other thread where someone recommended what software I can try for a lower cost... and then I've gotta work on my materals!

I have new goals set for myself... with neverenough time!

[SkiSouth]

I gotta go back to the other thread where someone recommended what software I can try for a lower cost... and then I've gotta work on my materals!

I have new goals set for myself... with neverenough time!


Scott recommended this:

If you are on a low budget get paint shop pro from JASC its about $99.00 and can do most of what photoshop can do, you can even use photoshop filters.
__________________
Scott Brown
WATG

This technique relies heavily on what are defined as "blends" or how to mix "layers" in Photoshop. I am unfamiliar with Paint shop Pro, but it probably can do this.. Looking forward to see what you come up with.

[ita]

Ski south, . . . . WOW!!!! Impressive!!! That pencil technique with vignette is simply delicious. It was that image that caught my attention when I looked into the gallery earlier.

I am rarely impressed with renderings, Generally I find them static and most often they lack finesse . . . . but your work is magical!!

I use Paintshop Pro and I had no idea that it could be used with Photoshop filters. Thanks for the suggestion - I will look into that . . . and using it to produce some rendered images. If I can get a fraction of the results you have shown here in this thread I will be delighted.

If you can find some time to put a tutorial together - that would be so much appreciated by many.

Beegee, this thread is great - it warrants more exposure. . I had no idea this was in the gallery - even though I stop by occasionally to see what is showing. Mate you are hiding your light under a bushel here. . . thanks for work in maintaining it!!

[PeterJ]

Abe

If you use pdf995 for as a pdf writer you might want to look at their website as they now have a free image manipulationprogramme based on the GPL licensed code that backs the Gimp, anothe rfree programme. I say look at software995 becasue their front end is likely to be easier to get a handle on than that of the gimp itself which does not have such a refined UI.

[steve.70285]

I've been looking at Piranesi and like the rendering tools that work on 3D planes. Can photoshop do this?

[SkiSouth]

I've been looking at Piranesi and like the rendering tools that work on 3D planes. Can photoshop do this?

No. Photoshop is basically an image manipulation software. Although it does use mathematics to change the image, the Epix file format (the required Piranesi file format) contains additional mathematical information that allows for the apparent "3d" painting that Piranesi performs. That information gives the paint program the planar info to act in the manner you describe.

Now what WOULD be good, would be for a bright someone like yourself to write a plugin for photoshop that reads and acts on the EPIX file like----Piranesi...

[steve.70285]

Now what WOULD be good, would be for a bright someone like yourself to write a plugin for photoshop that reads and acts on the EPIX file like----Piranesi...

Oh if I were only that bright...:banghead:

So far in my research I think the best setup would be if Piranesi created compatibility with Revit like they've done with Viz Renderer in keeping all the colors and materials intact. I've heard that Piranesi is aware of Revit and is open to this process. ..maybe Revit knows this too and their just waiting for there Accurender contract to end.

I know I can export to S/U and then to Piranesi but I have to redo all of the materials in S/U...the detailed 3D model that Revit creates for S/U needs a lot of cleanup...and I have to spend money on a 3D sketching software that I feel I already have in Revit.

Piranesi is my choice unless someone can prove to me there's a better way to do this.

[SkiSouth]

..maybe Revit knows this too and their just waiting for there Accurender contract to end.

The Accurender render engine is built into Revit, I don't know that they COULD take it out. but, that being said, I wouldn't want them to. I've really gotten use to the renderer, and I hope that they've activated a little more of the engine in R7. (We'll soon see :smile: ) The "around the world" for modeling and materials is a true waste of time (and a frustrating one too), that I have been down. I've posted with SketchUp and Piranesi, but the quickness of the "touchup" with Photoshop is where I have found myself. As I own 3dsmax6 too, I will look at the 3ddwg link (not Native Revit) link to Viz ( and 3dsmax) that hopefully is in R7, but I doubt it will change my opinion of where I should be with the software.

Post something you've rendered having gone through your process - would love to see it.

Also - how do you handle curved surfaces in Piranesi? I couldn't get it to do it....

[SkiSouth]

If you can find some time to put a tutorial together - that would be so much appreciated by many.



Are you interested in how to do the general technique? If so, stay tuned :smile:

If a specific technique, tell me and I'll see what I can do. Better yet, if you find a rendering technique you'd like to mimic, post the image and let's all have a shot at it!!!

[hand471037]

We've been experimenting with feeding animations through Photoshop for hand-drawn fly-throughs.

You export a shaded line animation to indevidual frames, then use the batch processing in Photoshop along with an Action to 'render' each frame sketchy. Then you roll them all together into an .AVI. The whole process takes way less time than actually rendering your animation, yet communitcates just as well for design level stuff. So I can't wait have better color control and shadows along with that too...

[SkiSouth]

, then use the batch processing in Photoshop along with an Action to 'render' each frame sketchy. ...

Would like to see the Photoshop action if you'd share, just to see how you've approached it.

[SkiSouth]

Another visit to the massing model I played with this weekend. A little different, not too refined, but a promising approach..

[SkiSouth]

not to be too boring - a 1960's look in rendering - again this is the posted R7 massing model with glazing modified with photoshop

[PeterJ]

So, is the attached a 'Shopped image from a rendering package or a quick scribbled output from SketchUp?

My guess is on the latter, but this isn't my work, its from an Australian practice called Superstudio (in itself a stolen name I think) and I have no idea how they produced it but it caight my eye while trying to find something else.

[SkiSouth]

So, is the attached a 'Shopped image from a rendering package or a quick scribbled output from SketchUp?

My guess is on the latter, but this isn't my work, its from an Australian practice called Superstudio (in itself a stolen name I think) and I have no idea how they produced it but it caight my eye while trying to find something else.

A few issues with SketchUp. Seems the details at the windows are lacking (unless very preliminary. Lack of shadows ( a missed opportunity), and the trees are strange. To me
it almost looks like a scanned image, filled color with a paint program, and the furniture pasted in (the furniture comes off looking more finished than the structure).

Interesting question.

[Vincent Valentijn]

To me
it almost looks like a scanned image, filled color with a paint program, and the furniture pasted in (the furniture comes off looking more finished than the structure).
Interesting question.

I think you hit the spot.. I have experimented with handdrawn sketches filled with the paintbucket and adding some photocontent in the past [during my studies] and it looked much like this [though much nicer of course ;) hahaha] It might look interesting if the one whjo made this picture got familiar with fillpatterns / filters / layerings.. it can result in pretty nice pictures..

Anyway..

I experimented with doing this:
Render an image with AccuRender
Save an image of the modelview [exclude entourage]
combine the two in Photoshop and play with filters on both the 'outlines' picture and the rendering - I got some great pictures [can't post them right now, I did them for a private job and I'm at work here]
just try Ski, it's easy

[SkiSouth]

both the 'outlines' picture and the rendering - I got some great pictures [can't post them right now, I did them for a private job and I'm at work here]
just try Ski, it's easy

Check out the tutorial Beegee posted (want your comments too), I use the blur tool to get the lines, see if this is similar to what you're doing. (I will try your method though - Thanks for the suggestion)

[steve.70285]

...I've posted with SketchUp and Piranesi, but the quickness of the "touchup" with Photoshop is where I have found myself. As I own 3dsmax6 too, I will look at the 3ddwg link (not Native Revit) link to Viz ( and 3dsmax) that hopefully is in R7, but I doubt it will change my opinion of where I should be with the software.

Post something you've rendered having gone through your process - would love to see it.

Also - how do you handle curved surfaces in Piranesi? I couldn't get it to do it....
Sorry to have taken so long in responding...it's just been crazy.

Here's a rendering I completed using Sketch-Up for cleanup, materials and writing the epix. Once in Piranesi I'm trying to create a more imaginary watercolor feel apart from what Accurender creates. I'm finding my clients more interested in this because of there own need for marketing and what their used to.

I'm trying to downplay curves but I'm happy with Piranesi's tools for whatever I need to do.

[mnisbett]

If you are looking for a quick hand draw rendering try Squiggle. I've used it in AutoCAD and in Revit, works great. My students have used it for preliminary design presentations in class using AutoCAD. Ive attached one done in Revit, its very easy to use.

[Tobie]

played around with the tutorials and this was my first go.
thanks for your help with us/me non phshop user. should use it more now.
cheers
tobie

[SkiSouth]

played around with the tutorials and this was my first go.
thanks for your help with us/me non phshop user. should use it more now.
cheers
tobie

Thats a very nice soft wash feel. Keep up the work and post more. Would love to see where you take it.

[j_wissinger]

I'm looking for the tutorial on how to use this techniques in photoshop...Is this available?

[SkiSouth]

I'm looking for the tutorial on how to use this techniques in photoshop...Is this available?

Look under the tutorial category of threads. Be sure that your date setting allows you to go back 100 days or so.

The link is here.http://forums.augi.com/showthread.php?t=9424