Pluses & Minuses

[Mamma Jamma]

Hi all.
I'm in an office running AutoCAD 2007, MEP, ACAD LT 2007 and CADWorx. We've been moving disciplines toward 3D. That's not an issue.
Issue is this: I have one person who does basic architectural drafting and some architectural rendering for us. She has been lobbying, since she started, for the most expensive softwares available, which for some reason she believes will make her better at it. Understand, she hasn't begun to explore the rendering/3d features available in the software we currently have (apparently it's beneath her), so I have no reason to believe a different software, for which none of us have had training, will really be all that helpful, and could, instead, cause endless headaches for those of us who have to use her drawings as their base xreference. (we have something like 60 LT licenses and 20+ of the others, and we use the architectural drawings to build upon for all other disciplines - sanitary piping, process electrical, equipment layouts, etc.)
All that said, what I really need is a simple list of why we should, or should not, move one person to Navisworks. (moving many is totally out of the question)
Many thanks.

[dgorsman]

How long have you had CADWorx? Until *very* recently, NavisWorks licenses were bundled with the product. Anyways, having only one person on NavisWorks doesn't make much sense, unless their computer is in a boardroom and used for overall design reviews. Even if they publish NWDs, its hard to justify just one.

Edit: forgot to mention, the CADWorx Design Review program looks like it needs another couple of years in Beta before realistic use, and it still doesn't compete with Roamer 5.5.

[Mamma Jamma]

Thanks.
We've had Cadworxs for several years...we are at whatever version is compatible with ACAD 2007. I was not aware of Navisworks being included in that. We use the piping package exclusively. I don't personally use it, and the folks that do, use what they need and know about and nothing else. (most still type the whole word for a command and wish for drafting boards).
I'll have to look into that.

[dgorsman]

Now that I think about it, it might have only been included in the "Plant Pro" version. If you do have them, you are golden - as long as you keep track of which computer has which license. Hand them out to the engineers first (they rarely have the programs to view the models and usually don't have the computer skills), checkers second (no point in taking up design program licenses for just verifying information in the model), and designers are last (they should already have the tools to view the models).

[Comach]

Hi all.
I'm in an office running AutoCAD 2007, MEP, ACAD LT 2007 and CADWorx. We've been moving disciplines toward 3D. That's not an issue.

All that said, what I really need is a simple list of why we should, or should not, move one person to Navisworks. (moving many is totally out of the question)
Many thanks.

Hi Sue - an individual crying out for specific cad packages on the proviso that this will improve their workflow is actually quite common.

Unfortunately it is also most common to find that perceived improvements are usually indirectly proportional to actual improvements.

You say you are moving towards 3D for all disciplines - I think that considerations for any software should be integral to an overall strategy that encompasses the whole spectrum of the design process from conceptual, preliminary and design engineering processes through to procurement, scheduling and installation. To consider a request in isolation leaves yourself open to needless expenditure that will not provide any added benefits unless it is part of a well structured work philosophy for everyone.

Anyway it may more worthy to consider having a dedicated 3d software specific to Architecture, perhaps Revit or ADT as this will no doubt be a better investment in consideration of your long term plans.

[Mamma Jamma]

Thanks for the responses. Turns out we do have Navis in our current Cadworx, and the aforementioned designer is supposedly now using it. I haven't seen any benefit from it yet. This designer's primary task is creating renderings (a self-professed wiz at it), but I had a drafter inexperienced with either 3-d or rendering play with the rendering capabilities built in vanilla Autocad, and his first attempt was more photorealistic than the ones done by our "wiz", with a considerably smaller file size. I'm thinking bigger and better software isn't going to help, in this case.

[david.kingham]

If she is lobbying for NavisWorks as a rendering solution that is just plain ignorance. NavisWorks is not a great renderer and you can get 3dsMax for a 1/3 of the price!

Now if she's talking about getting it for coordinating different disciplines for clash detection that's a whole 'nother story...

[riff.masteroff]

And you can get LightWave for less than 1/3 the price of 3dsMax and a subscription is not needed or available.

http://www.newtek.com/lightwave/gallery/main.php

Riff Masteroff

[Mamma Jamma]

Thanks,
Yes, there are several good rendering software packages out there that would definitely suit our needs better in that area. We are looking into them.
The clash detection is probably the only reason we would buy Navisworks at this point. It looks useful.
I can sympathize with our young designer - I, too, used to be all gung ho about getting better/newer/more powerful software. Unfortunately, that excitement has been beaten out of me and I have, of necessity, become somewhat of the office cynic - gotta keep it real for all the other people in the office who have to deal with the backlash when files get created that can't be easily dealt with using our other software (LT, vanilla ACAD)
Thanks for the input, guys.
Cheers
:beer:

[Peter Davies]

Hi, I've been one of those who could see benefits in trying out new software. Rather than asking for it to be purchased, I get a trial version, see what it can do (normally within the 30 day licence, yes some late nights involved), then if it looks promising, show my managers what can be done. So far with this approach we are batting 1000. We now have about 50 Revit licences, and are about to buy Navisworks Manage 2009.

So if anyone asks me can we buy any new untried software, I get them to prove it's value first. With many people you never hear another thing from them :-)