How do you scale plottable drawings?

[Ms. Serene]

I need assistance convincing one of the departments that I work for that scaling up a border is no longer necessary (I don't think that it has been necessary since release 11), but to use the view port and the XP factor. I know the benefits to me in using this method but are there benefits that I can quote to these people to convince them to do it the way all the other departments and I do it? I would appreciate any advice I can be given.

[JasonSelf]

Pros:

Line weights, text styles, etc will be dynamic in viewports...each viewport could be different

Multiple scaled details can be on one sheet that are all drawn to full scale in model space

Layers can be frozen depending on viewports so that you can reference the same thing multiple times but with different layers turned on or off in one drawing.

You can have multiple layout tabs with multiple layouts, lets say a D size sheet in one tab and a detail of an area in another tab that fits on 8.5x11 all referencing the same data

Viewports can be locked so the scale is not lost on an accidental zooming mistake (those can be rough sometimes)

Cons:

No longer get to have the conversation about how the titleblock scale was accidentally off between two drawings in a set and made things look amateuristic. Shucks. :smile:

I remember when I started with them after R14, the company I started working for didn't use them and I had to explain them to Non-CAD Operators...I drew a smiley face on a piece of paper and put it up to the office window. I told them to imagine that the window was the title block and the paper was model space, then I stepped back wards with the paper....see how it appears smaller, that is how you would scale with viewports.....I think that finally cleared things up, however I never understood what the hangup was with the concept.

[Ed Jobe]

There are a few applications where it is not necessary to have a tb in ps, e.g. if what you draw is not a model that has scale, like a schematic. In that case, you can put everything in one space, either ms or ps. But if there is a model, it should always be drawn in real world units in ms and the border should be drawn in it's real world units..in ps. With advances like associative dimensioning across spaces, there's no reason not to, other than "that's the way we've always done it." My biggest argument is simplified plotting, without having to wonder "how did they plot it like that?"

[Spectrefish]

One major reason is: Everything drawn in Modelspace is 1:1, then scaled using viewports. I can't think of good reason not to take advantage of this. I am presently converting all of my company's drawings with title blocks in Modelspace over to Paperspace. I have run across several drawings where previous drafters scaled the model up/down in order to fit it into a 1:1 title block. WHY? :???: I'll never know since these people don't work here anymore.

Another major reason is: Sheet Sets; they rely on layouts.

[Ms. Serene]

they must work here then, and appear to be incharge

[Ms. Serene]

I have tried most of these arguments and what I am told is that this is the way the Civil department does it and that do not care what anyone else does or I am told what difference does it make as long as the physical print looks like the others. What I really think I have here is that they do not know that there is a better way and if they do they do not want to go to the trouble of learning it. Does this make any sense?

[thomas.stright]

they must work here then, and appear to be incharge
:lol:

I understand what you mean, Seems like the people in charge *Most* of the time are the ones that have little understanding on how we accomplish our jobs.....

[jaberwok]

*Most*[/b] of the time are the ones that have little understanding on how we accomplish our jobs.....

How true.

Once a client caught me reading the acad manual at lunchtime.
He said "what are you doing."
I said "reading the manual."
He said "I thought you were the expert."
I said "how do you think I got to be an expert?"

He still didn't see it.

John B

[Ms. Serene]

People actually tease me about reading the manuals, but how else are you going to learn. The really funny thing is that every company I have worked for before considered me an expert and actually had me teaching training classes. Sometimes I had up to 60 students most from other departments, they had heard I was doing the class and they would just show up. I guess what gets to me most is that I was hired to revolutionize the department and they will not let me do it.

[VirtualBuilding]

Some things on this subject that I have found to be absolutely true.
They do not provide solutions, but solace in your struggle for Truth.

Couple quotes for thought :)

"You are never a prophet in your own land" :(

"One of the greatest pains to human nature is the pain of a new idea.
It... makes you think that after all, your favorite notions may be wrong,
your firmest beliefs ill-founded... .
Naturally, therefore, common men hate a new idea, and are disposed
more or less to ill-treat the original man who brings it."
-Walter Bagehot Physics and Politics

I have these plotted out Large above my desk at work :)