How would you model this?

[J-G]

The colums are families that I already have, and the gate will also be a family. The horizontal railing could be a family or a railing...probably a railing right?

I am not sure how to go about the wall since it is sloping and curved. The best bet seems to be a inplace wall family, but it seems a little complicated. I created a wall with the cap, but you can't edit the elevation profile of radiused walls, and if the wall is straight you loose the cap sweep anyway.

Suggestions would be appreciated! I was just thinking how nice it would be if Revit allowed us to define the elevation of a wall (like the upper left sketch) and then draw the wall in plan.

[sbrown]

Its not really possible to model 100% correctly, but what I do, it use normal walls, then I create a void in the side elevation perpendicular to your gate that cuts the wall out as you want.

So make you wall the highest elevation with the curve in plan and then create the elevation curve in section with a void.

[J-G]

thanks I never thought of that. Would you do the cap also? I could cut a void at the top and botm of the cap to give me a 4" cap sloped down along the wall...I think :wink:

[sbrown]

Similar method, you make and extrusion in plan following your curve, then 2 voids in section to cut out the top and bottom leaving only the compound curved cap.

[Scott D Davis]

We just did this excercise at the So Cal Revit Meeting at Jim Baldings office. Create the curved wall using an in-place sweep family. Then create a reference plane that sets the high point and low point of the elevation change. Name your reference plane. Turn on your workplane (to make it easy to see the cut) and set it to your previously named ref plane. Now create a void sweep, and use "Pick" to select the path, which will allow you to pick the intersection of the ref plane and the centerline of the wall. Skecth your Void geometry profile so that it exceeds the dimension of the wall. When you Finish Sketch, you should have a curved wall which the elevation slopes.

(edit: i forgot a step! Once you've established the workplane at the proper slope, you need to draw a model line on the Sloped workplane at the centerline of the wall. Then edit the family, create a void sweep, picking the model line as the sweep path, then it will work! See attached....)

Then use another Solid Sweep profile to add the wall cap, using the same model line as a sweep path!

http://www.zoogdesign.com/forums/phpBB2/download.php?id=377 http://www.zoogdesign.com/forums/phpBB2/download.php?id=378

[sbrown]

very sweet scott, thanks

[jbalding48677]

Scott -

You were listening. However I think this is what he is looking for. Similar to Scott B's original technique but use a blend that has a focal point at the center of the wall radius. Make sense?

[jbalding48677]

Here is the blend I used. Keeping in mind I didn't worry too much about accuracy.

[sbrown]

Scott, I just tried your technique and the top of my wall is not level like yours it rotates the rectangular void as it follows the path, what am I missing. could you open a new session of revit, create the family, then post the journal file?

[jbalding48677]

Scott Brown -

How did you get it to rotate? That would be cool in another application.

[dna]

this might sound stupid

how did you draw the line at the center of the wall on the workplane? just arbitrary or there is a way to actually pick the center of the wall

[Scott D Davis]

After setting the workplane, I used the Model Line tool, changed my workplane in the Options Bar to "Slope" (thats what I named the ref plane), then selected the 3-point Arc line tool from the options bar. Then I set a 5" offset, because my wall was 10" thick. I then picked the outside endpoint of both ends of the arc'd wall, and then an intersection of the outside edge of the wall and workplane. It drew the Model line down the centerline of the wall, on the slope.

[dna]

i thought it was arbitrary. i was trying to pick the wall to no awail

[Scott D Davis]

Scott, I just tried your technique and the top of my wall is not level like yours it rotates the rectangular void as it follows the path, what am I missing. could you open a new session of revit, create the family, then post the journal file?

Scott B, I just double-checked mine, and it did rotate the void rectangle in mine, too! The top of the low end of the wall is parallel to the ground plane, but the highest point is angeled!!?? I though it was flat....JB did it in the meeting, and it remained flat. JB: what are we missing???

[jbalding48677]

Jon -

Is this the form you are looking for?

http://www.zoogdesign.com/forums/phpBB2/download.php?id=383 http://www.zoogdesign.com/forums/phpBB2/download.php?id=384 http://www.zoogdesign.com/forums/phpBB2/download.php?id=385

[jbalding48677]

The top of the wall is parallel to the reference plane that was used as the Work Plane. Because you drew the reference plan from a view perpendicular to the "low end" it remains parallel. If you want the top and bottom to be parallel to the ground plane you will need to very carefully build a blend or blends as I described above. And I am not sure that is what you are after.

[J-G]

Jim,

That is exactly what I am looking for. I haven't had a chance to try it yet, and I am slightly unclear on the technique :wink: , but that is the look we are after. :? I need to start comming to those meetings you are having!

[J-G]

Jim,

Just to verify, what are you meaning by blend? It seems that to achive what you did, you would have two walls. The higher wall is being cut down to the lower wall...right?

[christopher.zoog51272]

Wow, awesome tip guys, I never would have thought to do it that way!!

[christopher.zoog51272]

The top of the wall is parallel to the reference plane that was used as the Work Plane. Because you drew the reference plan from a view perpendicular to the "low end" it remains parallel. If you want the top and bottom to be parallel to the ground plane you will need to very carefully build a blend or blends as I described above. And I am not sure that is what you are after.

JB, you should do one of those fancy videos!

[J-G]

Jim,

I am unclear how you are using blends in conjuntion with the sloped ref plane. To create a sloped plane and extrude a void along that plane is not a problem. However, I as the others end up with a sloped cap. The extrusion's profile is perpendicular to the sloping plane, and as it rotates down along the wall it is then going to be angled. The only way that you could fix this would be to create a perp. profile that follows a sloping path.

But...what about the blends? I have been working with them, but still haven't found how they would be used with the sloped plane.

Thank you for the examples! At least I know it is possible...now I jsut need to figure it out.

[jbalding48677]

If I can find some time I will try and document the process. Just after I finished the last wall I had a mountainside project dumped on my lap. I am having some issues with pads, area boundries, and walls... Any experts in that area out there?

[ajayholland]

Both these thechniques are pretty good work-arounds, but I think we alll realize that a continuously sloping curved wall is not within Revit's current capabilities (think helix). This is not a critical factor for me.

Jim's blend/void solution will be fairly accurate for small arc segments (as in Jon's original example) for larger ones the blend would have to taper toward the wall's center.

-AJH

[jbalding48677]

Jim's blend/void solution will be fairly accurate for small arc segments (as in Jon's original example) for larger ones the blend would have to taper toward the wall's center.

-AJH

That is why I used a blend, so it can taper

[Martin P]

do you calculate the sizes in the blend or do it by eye?, looks like it would be a horribly complicated thing to try and calculate :shock: but I do hate working stuff out for myself :twisted: :lol: If there is a calculation you use, would it be possible to make a family with parameters that you could edit for walls like these?

[Scott D Davis]

I think what we need is a new modeling tool: Blend/Sweep. This would be a combination of two tools. It would be a sweep tool, where we could define the path, but then we would be allowed to create a starting profile, and an ending profile.

If this tool were available, we could create the curved, sloped top wall in one step, rather than two.

See attached image: I've left the normal Walls in for clarity of the "workplane".

http://www.zoogdesign.com/forums/phpBB2/download.php?id=389

[Steve_Stafford]

Just call him, Scott "Mr. Idea" Davis...Watch out folks he's on a roll!! Cool idea Scott.

[J-G]

The sweep tool would work if you could rotate the profile to a non perpendicular path. As it is now if you set that sloped refference plane and define a path along it, your profile is also sloped. If could sweep a vertical profile along a sloped path it would also take care of the problem.

[jbalding48677]

do you calculate the sizes in the blend or do it by eye?, looks like it would be a horribly complicated thing to try and calculate :shock: but I do hate working stuff out for myself :twisted: :lol: If there is a calculation you use, would it be possible to make a family with parameters that you could edit for walls like these?

I calculated it only in the sense of projecting an arc on a front and back imaginary plane.

[J-G]

Once I finally understood it, Jim's wall blend method for the sloped walls worked great. I ended up making a quick family so that I could play with the radius and low/high end heights. Hopfully Revit will have better modeling tools in the future, but at least there are work arounds (although they can be time consuming work arounds :? )

Thanks for the help guys.

http://www.zoogdesign.com/forums/phpBB2/download.php?id=407

[jbalding48677]

Very nice. I had the documentation of this on my list but I am buried right now. Out of the office most of the week.